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(Topic ID: 261169)

System 80B booting issues

By JodyG

4 years ago

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9 posts
3 Pinsiders participating
Latest reply 4 years ago by ChrisHibler
Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 4 years ago

JLG

Hi folks, I have a System 80B MPU that is giving me fits at the moment. Right now, there is no boot, no displays, couple inserts locked on, and GI lit up when I turn the power on. No solenoid thunking.

What I have done:
Verify good 5v on the MPU
Swapped MPU into a known good machine and had the same results, so I know it is the MPU.
Daughter board has been reflowed previously and pressing on it does nothing when trying to boot. Also pressed on it with reset board plugged in.
Reseated the ROM chips and also swapped in known good ROM chips and no change.
None of the 6532's seem to be getting hot, as well as the Z11-14 IC's

I have been google searching for past threads, and I am not seeing much beyond what I have already done. I have had some issues with 6532's before...can the failure of one of U1/U4/U5/U6 cause the machine to not boot at all?

Thanks,
Jody

#2 4 years ago

FRN

Friengineer

Pinside member

10y 70,550 1,828 5

JodyG - Here's what I recommend based on troubleshooting two system 80B projects recently.

Do you have the following: a multimeter, & a logic probe? What level of desoldering skill/equipment do you have? Do you have a test bench(5V power supply)

To start:
(1) Buy piggyback deux board from pinitech - this will remove a bad daughter card out of the equation.
(2) You need to test continuity from U2, U3, U4/5/6 & U1 via pinwiki, link below:
https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Gottlieb_System_80#Continuity_Chart_of_Pinouts_for_Damaged_U2_.2F_U3_Area

#3 4 years ago

FRN

Friengineer

Pinside member

10y 70,550 1,828 5

OP
Quoted from JodyG:
Verify good 5v on the MPU

Where did you measure from? You must measure 5V on the MPU. I have had a few cases where the power supply puts out 5V but at the MPU the voltage is like 4.5V so the MPU doesn't boot. You can measure the capacitor nearest A1-J1.

Also if you can, post some pictures of your MPU, front and back.

If you don't have soldering skills or the good desoldering equipment, no worries. If that is the case I would recommend sending your board into someone who can troubleshoot it as well as socket the cpu, u4/5/6 chips.

#4 4 years ago

JLG

JodyG

Ramp-O-Matic

6y 143K 4,612 6 21 1

Quoted from Friengineer:
Where did you measure from? You must measure 5V on the MPU. I have had a few cases where the power supply puts out 5V but at the MPU the voltage is like 4.5V so the MPU doesn't boot. You can measure the capacitor nearest A1-J1.
Also if you can, post some pictures of your MPU, front and back.
If you don't have soldering skills or the good desoldering equipment, no worries. If that is the case I would recommend sending your board into someone who can troubleshoot it as well as socket the cpu, u4/5/6 chips.

I measured the voltage at the capacitor by A1-J1. I'll start with the U2/U3 continuity test and see if that shows any issues before go the Piggydeux route. Since that area has been heat cycled once before by someone else, I don't want to do it again and risk removing traces if I do not have to. I down a FR-300 and am comfortable doing good soldering work, I just don't want to start shotgunning good components.

#5 4 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Chris' Pinball Repair

Chesterfield, MO

12y 120K 9,993 46

OP
Quoted from JodyG:
can the failure of one of U1/U4/U5/U6 cause the machine to not boot at all?

Absolutely. And without a diagnostic tool like GPE's QuickScan80 (NLA) or PiniTech's PiggyDeux with Marco's test ROM, you are shooting in the dark. I have those tools and can take care of the board if you'd like.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#6 4 years ago

JLG

JodyG

Ramp-O-Matic

6y 143K 4,612 6 21 1

Quoted from ChrisHibler:
Absolutely. And without a diagnostic tool like GPE's QuickScan80 (NLA) or PiniTech's PiggyDeux with Marco's test ROM, you are shooting in the dark. I have those tools and can take care of the board if you'd like.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Thanks Chris! I actually just ordered the Piggydeux with Marco's ROM this morning and will give that a shot. This is like the 3rd time I could have used one of those, so I finally decided to just get one and be done with it.

#7 4 years ago

FRN

Friengineer

Pinside member

10y 70,550 1,828 5

OP
Quoted from JodyG:
I don't want to do it again and risk removing traces if I do not have to. I down a FR-300 and am comfortable doing good soldering work

With the piggyback deux board you don't have to remove the daughter board. I would recommend against removing the daughter board at all costs. I removed one & nearly ruined my MPU. Luckily I was able to repair the damaged traces & I have a few replacement MPUs.

Quoted from ChrisHibler:
PiniTech's PiggyDeux with Marco's test ROM, you are shooting in the dark. I have those tools and can take care of the board if you'd like.

Well you learn something new everyday. I didn't realize, I could combine the two!

#8 4 years ago

JLG

JodyG

Ramp-O-Matic

6y 143K 4,612 6 21 1

People love to rag about working on 80B's, but I would 100% rather work on an 80B MPU over a System 11 MPU. The traces are way more forgiving on the Gottliebs.

#9 4 years ago

TOX

ChrisHibler

Chris' Pinball Repair

Chesterfield, MO

12y 120K 9,993 46

OP
Quoted from JodyG:
People love to rag about working on 80B's, but I would 100% rather work on an 80B MPU over a System 11 MPU. The traces are way more forgiving on the Gottliebs.

Definitely agree...until you get to the 80B sound boards...those things are boogers....
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

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