(Topic ID: 344484)

System 80 won't boot when F1 fuse is installed

By xcguy

9 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 months ago by sparky672
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 9 months ago

I've picked up a 1980 Gottlieb Amazing Spiderman (System 80), with what appears to be all original boards. I actually played the machine before I purchased it and everything seemed to work well except the backbox illumination was out. Once I got it home, I was able to open it up and look at the fuses. As suspected, the F1 fuse (lightbox illumination) was burned out. Frighteningly, I realized after pulling the other six (F2-F7) fuses that someone had replaced them all with T5AL250V (5A SB)! Definitely the wrong type for 4 of the fuses. I found fuses to match the specs and installed them. When I turned it on, the backbox lit up but the machine doesn't finish booting up -- the score displays don't light and no sound or action. I powered it off and took the F1 fuse out, and bingo, the machine comes back on, score displays, sound, etc. work again (just no backbox illumination without that fuse obviously).

So it appears to be an issue with the backbox illumination -- looking for some ideas about where to start diagnosing the problem without causing damage. Appreciate any suggestions.

#2 9 months ago

Did you check the 5Volt for the CPU? Is the level the same with F1 inserted?
If yes, I would try to boot without the connectors for the Switchmatrix ( A1J5 & J6)
to check if you have a connection between the Switchmatrix and the 6.3V of the GI which prevents the CPU to boot.
Without J6 the game should boot, without J5 you should see '000 000' at all Displays because of missing Slam Switch.

#3 9 months ago

I'm looking at the manual for your game, however, none of the fuses are marked in the schematics. Can you post a screenshot of the schematic showing which fuse is "F1"?

If you can't find it either, then what's the value of the fuse and what are the wire colors on each side of the F1 fuse holder?

#4 9 months ago
Quoted from sparky672:

Can you post a screenshot of the schematic showing which fuse is "F1"?

F1 fuse is the lightbox. I've attached a photo. And here is the schematic: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-amazing-spider-man-schematic

It appears the slam switch is disconnected (wires are cut, appears they just bypassed it). Don't believe that impacts the system, as it boots and plays.

I've attached a photo of the power board. Looks like only one repair (someone replaced SCR1). I haven't tested the voltages yet, but I'm already planning to replace the capacitors and zener diode (CR7).

One other thing: The CPU/Driver wiring harness looks a little suspect -- in particular, is it missing the additional 5VDC and ground wires? (photo attached)
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#5 9 months ago
Quoted from xcguy:

Frighteningly, I realized after pulling the other six (F2-F7) fuses that someone had replaced them all with T5AL250V (5A SB)! Definitely the wrong type for 4 of the fuses. I found fuses to match the specs and installed them.

Except for F4 and F7, the 5 A SB would not have been a problem since 5 amps is less than or equal to what is supposed to be in each of the other spots. You were effectively only running without fuse protection on F4 and F7. It's good that you put in the correct fuses, but that would not be the cause of any of your current problems.

---------

F1 should not be causing MPU problems since it's feeding from its own 6.3 VAC transformer windings here...

Screen Shot 2023-10-05 at 7.43.21 PM (resized).pngScreen Shot 2023-10-05 at 7.43.21 PM (resized).png

For the heck of it, pull F2 OUT and put F1 IN ... see what happens.

That MPU to Driver harness looks horrific, BTW. I would get that replaced, but as long as it's working, it's not a priority. This will not affect booting.

Quoted from xcguy:

but the machine doesn't finish booting up

Verify that you have at least 5 volts coming in to the MPU.

Methodically go through the pinwiki and test all voltages at the power supply board.

Show a photo of the MPU. What's the condition of the reset section? Any alkaline battery damage? Any hacks or crappy repairs?

Like I said before, I was already looking at the schematic (manual) and couldn't find F1. I meant that I wanted you to screenshot and circle the fuse location.

Quoted from xcguy:

It appears the slam switch is disconnected (wires are cut, appears they just bypassed it). Don't believe that impacts the system, as it boots and plays.

It's a normally closed switch so there is probably a jumper on the MPU, thereby allowing the circuit wires to be removed/cut.

#6 9 months ago

I took voltages on the power board, TP1 = 64.2 (spec is 60), TP2 = 49.3 (spec 42), TP4 = 5.09 (spec 5), TP5 = 8.78 (spec 8). Maybe TP2 a little high, but nothing showstopping?

I removed F2 and reinserted F1. Machine came up and played! So then I stuck F1 back in (so all the fuses are in), and of course, now it boots and plays! Not sure exactly what changed to make it boot. The only updates I've done today are: replaced a few bad bulbs, and removal/reinstall of the A2-J2 and A2-J3 connectors (so I could test the power board). So maybe one of the connectors was dirty/bad contact?

I've attached a photo of the CPU board. Note that someone installed a standalone battery backup (not a pretty job). But I don't see any obvious damage of the previous battery setup.

I think the plan moving forward is to update the capacitors and zener diode on the power board, and eventually add the redundant wires on the CPU/driver harness. Anything else appear to need immediate attention?

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#7 9 months ago

The PS rehab is well documented at www.pinWiki.com

Look there also to implement the ground modifications to each board.

The redundant 5V and Ground aren’t as important as I once thought they were.

Great game. I have one too.

Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
Http://chrishiblerpinball.com/contact
Thank you for checking out the PinWiki - http://www.PinWiki.com/

#8 9 months ago
Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Look there also to implement the ground modifications to each board.

The redundant 5V and Ground aren’t as important as I once thought they were.

And the debate continues

#9 9 months ago
Quoted from xcguy:

I removed F2 and reinserted F1. Machine came up and played! So then I stuck F1 back in (so all the fuses are in), and of course, now it boots and plays! Not sure exactly what changed to make it boot.

Coincidence. The F1 and F2 fuses are directly off the main transformer for lighting circuits and wouldn't have anything to do with the MPU booting, which gets power from the A2 Power Supply. IMO, there's something flaky on the MPU or something flaky in the wiring from the power supply to the MPU.

My System 80 had a ton of booting issues due to various problems. One big issue was the 5 VDC harness coming from the power supply. The pins were loose and no amount of cleaning or squeezing would get them to keep a good connection. I ended up installing new male headers on the PS and re-pinning the plastic housings. I switched to the Trifurcon style for a more secure/stable connection. Try Docent Electronics, Big Daddy, Marco, PBR, etc.

Header Pin Connectors (original KK 0.156”) - A2 Power Supply, Light Chaser, Pop Bumpers
Replace with (KK Trifurcon series 6838)
Replace round header pins with square
Molex Trifurcon 08-50-0189 (18-20 AWG)
same as Molex Trifurcon 08-52-0113 (better material and higher current rating)

https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/crimp_terminals/0008500189
https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/crimp_terminals/0008520113

MPU side...

Single Sided Edge Connectors (KK 396, KK series 2478, KK 0.156”)

Molex 08-52-0072 (18-24 AWG)
Molex 08-52-0071 (same as 0072, but in reel strips)

https://www.molex.com/molex/products/part-detail/crimp_terminals/0008520072

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