(Topic ID: 349603)

System 80 RottenDog MPU

By tcw16505

6 months ago


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  • Latest reply 5 months ago by tcw16505
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Time Line sw mtx (resized).jpg
uln2803a.pdf (PDF preview)
GDB080.pdf (PDF preview)
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#1 6 months ago

I picked up a nonworking Gottlieb that has a RottenDog MPU & Driver Board.

It appears the driver board was not powered when the game was turned on and all kinds of havoc pursued. I found open fuses on two of the pop-bumpers (The third had the ground wire broken free so no overload there). Also an open fuse on the Black Drop Target Bank and a short with the associated Q64, 13N10L 100V N-Channel FET, Sol #6 (from tab to legs read .511 and .535) on the RottenDog GDB080 Driver Board. I have replaced the FET, fuses and secured power to the driver board.

I would like to power this up but would also like to know what I should see on the reset status LED on the MPU080. Does it pulse a few times or stay on or just what? Hopefully this Dog will Boot but I'm uncertain what damage might have happened to the MPU and driver board under these circumstances - Tom

timeline (resized).jpgtimeline (resized).jpg
#2 6 months ago
Quoted from tcw16505:

It appears the driver board was not powered when the game was turned on and all kinds of havoc pursued.

Somebody with more Rottendog experience can chime in here, but AFAIK, powering up without the Driver board is nothing. The MPU operates as normal, but without outputs of course.

2 weeks later
#3 5 months ago
Quoted from sparky672:

Somebody with more Rottendog experience can chime in here, but AFAIK, powering up without the Driver board is nothing. The MPU operates as normal, but without outputs of course.

Insert properly grounded for powered.

It appears the driver board was not "properly grounded" when the game was turned on and all kinds of havoc pursued.

#4 5 months ago
Quoted from tcw16505:

It appears the driver board was not powered...

Quoted from tcw16505:

Insert properly grounded for powered.

Yes. Not powered (no power at all), and powered without being grounded are two different things. Thanks for the clarification.

Quoted from tcw16505:

I'm uncertain what damage might have happened to the MPU and driver board under these circumstances

All you can do is verify that it has proper power and ground, and then power it up to see. Again, I think without a proper grounding on the Driver board, the greater risk is to the rest of the machine, coils locking on, etc. Be ready to power down if you suspect a coil locking.

#5 5 months ago

I have now added the additional grounding.

Now, its not booting. When turning on, the displays will instantly light a zero randomly on players 1 & 3 (and sometimes the Bonus indicator) or 2 and 4 (or nothing at all). When this happens, the zero's displayed are brighter than normal. This game had only non MPU related Solenoid issues, IE: Drop Target Sol. & Pop Bumper Sol.

I will check the MPU's three R6532 RIOT Microprocessors and the U62256ADK07LLG1 ram chip and see what I can determine from there.

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#6 5 months ago
Quoted from tcw16505:

When this happens, the zero's displayed are brighter than normal.

I believe this condition is described in the Pinwiki.

#7 5 months ago

After replacing a riot chip I was able to get it to boot. It displays the high score as 650000 but the 6 is missing segment A when flashing the high score. Same on the bonus display. I have yet to connect the driver board.

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#8 5 months ago

I think thats how the 6 is displayed. If it was missing a segment it would be missing from all digits. If i'm wrong I hope someone corrects me.

#9 5 months ago
Quoted from tcw16505:

but the 6 is missing segment A when flashing the high score

Segment "a" is not supposed to be lit here. You're showing a perfectly fine Gottlieb "6" on all boards.

My Gottlieb System 80 Volcano below.

System 80 Volcano - 1980System 80 Volcano - 1980

#10 5 months ago
Quoted from Stepan:

I think thats how the 6 is displayed.

Quoted from sparky672:

Segment "a" is not supposed to be lit here.

Thanks for the good news! - Tom

#11 5 months ago

I started the game up with just the Pop Bumpers fused (drop target reset solenoids un-fused). The left Bumper work initially but failed with an open fuse. I checked the PMD10K60 and the diode test was good at .476 & .560. 2.7Ohms across all three Pop Bumper coils. Non of the Pop Bumper driver boards have been upgraded.

Attract mode works
Coin up OK
Sounds and scoring good.
All Flippers good.

#12 5 months ago

I went ahead and did the upgrade recommended on Pinwiki:

47uf/10V electrolytic capacitor (C4)
4.7uf/10V capacitor (C3, tantalum or electrolytic, may be axial or radial)
Jumper material (use the remaining leg cut from C4 when you install it) in place of CR1

I also re-soldered the board connections and now its working just fine. Next I will be trying it with the drop target reset solenoids fused. Earlier I had an open fuse on the Black Drop Target Bank and a short with the associated Q64, 13N10L 100V N-Channel FET, Sol #6. I am going to ring this out again for a short first.

Tom

#13 5 months ago

All drop target resets are working and ball kicker as well.

I do have an incandescent lamp issue though in the back box. Player three stays lite all the time as does players 1, 2 and 4 but they have very pale ghost to them. So does High Game to Date and Game Over. I would guess an issue with the Driver Board's Z2, Z3 or associated Q5 - Q12? Maybe up stream, the MPU? Any ideas on what to do here? - Tom

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#14 5 months ago
Quoted from tcw16505:

I do have an incandescent lamp issue though in the back box. Player three stays lite all the time as does players 1, 2 and 4 but they have very pale ghost to them. So does High Game to Date and Game Over. I would guess an issue with the Driver Board's Z2, Z3 or associated Q5 - Q12? Maybe up stream, the MPU? Any ideas on what to do here? - Tom

This is where it would help to have the thread tied to a single game, rather than generically tied to all System 80 games. Not all of them have the same schematics or a lamp that indicates player number.

But to answer the question, verify ground at J2 pin 6 as per the diagram. Then test Q5 through Q8, and Q11, Q12. If they test good and if the wiring is solid, then move upstream to Z2 and Z3, but I doubt they'd both be giving the same issues. It's likely something common to all of these lamps, which would be the ground.

#15 5 months ago

Time Line, the driver board is a Rottendog. Z2 & Z3 go to a Z14, ULN2803 Darlington transistor array.
GDB080.pdfGDB080.pdf

uln2803a.pdfuln2803a.pdf
#16 5 months ago
Quoted from sparky672:

But to answer the question, verify ground at J2 pin 6 as per the diagram. Then test Q5 through Q8, and Q11, Q12.

Q5 - Q12 which Rottendog condensed in to Z14, a ULN2803 chip (Darlington Transistor Array). I did a diode check on the only two ULN2803 chips on the board (Z14 & Z15) and they don't match. I will replace the Z14 and see what gives.

#17 5 months ago

That took care of the:

Quoted from tcw16505:

Player three stays lite all the time as does players 1, 2 and 4 but they have very pale ghost to them. So does High Game to Date and Game Over.

This revealed additional issues elsewhere:

All three drop targets only reset on start and the next ball, but not when all targets are dropped (contact checked good).
This consequently will not allow the gate to open. - Sound like a common logic issue to all type of problem.

Standing Target "#1 Top Target", SW MTX #01 will not score or sound or operate associated lamp #29 during contact closure. - Sounds like a signal not getting to the switch or being interrupted on return.

Switch Test reveled:

At all times during the test it shows the end of each row, 06,16, 26, 36, 46, 56, 66, 76 (A1J6-16, which is a spare, no wire actually run). Also the top row (SW. 01 through SW. 04) is also the problem including why #1 Top Target contact isn't being seen either.

Any ideas appreciated. - Tom
Time Line sw mtx (resized).jpgTime Line sw mtx (resized).jpg

#18 5 months ago
Quoted from tcw16505:

Any ideas appreciated. - Tom

I rang out through each diode through the contact of A1J6-11, A1J6-12, A1J6-13, A1J6-14 to the connector at the MPU. All good. On the RottenDog the connector goes directly to Z13 and Z14 (SN74HCT00N). Then on to U4 which I already replaced to get the MPU to boot. After hearing from Chris Hibler, he simply said "The column drive device is broken". I was a bit stumped when first reading that but then I thought, "Strobe and Return". I had been focusing on the return side and hadn't really rang out the Strobe side. That's the wire A1J6-1 400, Yellow, Black, Black. It rang open. The previous owner had re-pinned A1J6. He failed to strip the wire and had crimped it on the insulation. Tomorrow I will re-pin the this conductor and report on how it goes. - Tom

#19 5 months ago

All that did was reveal more Sw. Matrix issues. A1J6-3, #2 Top Target, #3 Red Drop Target, #3 Yellow Target, #3 Black Target. I will.look into that next.

#20 5 months ago
Quoted from tcw16505:

I will look into that next.

That got it! It appears they used the wrong size dye (to small) to crimp on the connectors and subsequently severed the conductor.

Thanks sparky672 , I appreciate your help. I off to replace all the lamps and rubber. I'm going to play it until the weather warms up and them strip the playfield down to re-clear it (its a bit flaky). - Tom

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