Gang:

I finally found the one System 80 I have been hunting for for years. It's my first machine built on that platform, but I do have experience with the System 1. Unfortunately, the joker that sold me the game took me for a ride and neglected to tell me that the boards were all either missing or burnt to a crisp. So, I had to plunge for new boards and went the Swemmer route. For the record, these boards are gorgeous. I did NOT immediately install them, but waited until:

- All major connectors were repinned - everything but pop driver boards and score/credit displays.
- Every (or so I thought) coil checked and replaced if failed (low ohms) or even appeared to have gotten warm at some point.
- All switches checked for proper open/closure
- New capacitor to replace big blue in cabinet
- All fuses replaced with new correct value specimens
- Validated under playfield transistor is good with DMM

I did NOT do any ground mods as Swemmer shared that with his boards they are not necessary.

So, when I first booted up, I was able to enter diagnostics (play/test switch)
The fuse for +24V (solenoids) blew when I went into solenoid test - this happened twice, afterwards I did appear to have 2 coils that needed to be replaced (knocker and coin door lockout relay). I have no idea why these fried (although I think the knocker was previously dead), but they have been replaced.

Now, when I power on, the reset and tilt relays click, and the coin door lockout engages. I get all zeros on the three displays that work. All of my voltages on the boards are good. The LEDs are lit and I validated with my DMM. The number 15 appears in the credit display (so I assume I have credits). All GI and controlled lamps are present and so is the attract tune. No fuses blow.

However, when I press the play/test switch nothing happens. Press the game start button, nothing happens. Close credit switch, nothing happens.

My slam is closed and PF tilt is open, cabinet tilt is open. Coin slot switches, all open. Outhole switch is closed when ball in trough.

I'm stumped and do not believe anything happened to the boards when the coin door relay fried (again, I believe the knocker was already dead and just missed it in my initial walk through).

Hoping I can get some help here. Usually, I can figure this stuff out, but the Sys 80 is new to me.

Thanks in advance!

Ken, yes it is. Sys 80, all correct ROMS, etc.

Swemmer made sure that we got game specific prior to shipping.

kong, I hope it's something that simple and feel like it should have surfaced, but I'll check again.

Chris, if you're referring to the MPU to Driver interconnect, Swemmer provides a traditional ribbon cable option to replace the edge connector. Currently, that is what is installed.

I could install the original edge connector and see if it yields a different result, but it has NOT been repinned.

If you're referring to J5 for switch strobes, returns, & coin door...yes, repinned with new female socket.

Again, what has me stumped here is the fact that the game's behavior changed.

When I powered it on the first and second times, I could start a game and enter diagnostics. Now, nothing.

Chris and Kong, I'll recheck all coin door wires for shorts and buzz out for continuity to the diode banks.

I am thinking it's something simple, but curses if it's not elusive!

Yeah, I am pretty pleased to finally have picked up one. Timeline was a game I just fell in love with on looks alone and it took FOREVER to find one. Hopefully, it plays almost as good as it looks! I am looking forward to trying to nail that center, return to shooter shot!

OK, starting with continuity from the start button to the test/diagnostic switch - it's good.

Both lugs of the test/diagnostic switch have continuity to the diode bank. The white/blue/purple lug can be validated as continuous all the way to the J5 connector. I believe the other lug (white/black/green) terminates at the diode bank.

Tested all diodes in the bank and they all come back .25, or so. This is lower than the standard .4-.6 I see when testing other diodes, but they all say the same thing.

No signs of shorts anywhere on the coin door. On the credit wire I even measured from the switch blade instead of the lug to go all the way to the furthest point.

Still scratching my head....

Here we go...

The second photo reflects how the blue/purple wire is two part- one piece of wire goes from a diagnostic switch lug to diode bank and the other from diode bank to the J5 connector in the head.

The first photo reflects how the green/black wire is a single wire and appears to only run from the diagnostic switch log to the diode bank. Rather than simply trust wire colors, I attached one clip to the lug on the diode bank and probed all of the wires at J5 and none reflected continuity.

image_(resized).jpeg
image_(resized).jpeg

Ah, for what it's worth there was not a different colored wire at any of the lugs on the diode bank that provided continuity to the black/green wire originating on the diagnostic switch lug.

So, yes, there were some ugly solder joints from a previous repair on the diode bank. No shorts there though.

Interestingly enough, in the schematics the coin door switches are strobes. In the switch matrix, they are not named, but the associated strobes are referenced by number. One could deduce that maybe the entire column is out. This points me back to the wire specific connector at the MPU which I will check for continuity and good contact this evening.

Make sense?

Nightly update.

I went back to basics. Dug out the schematic and started to compare wire colors and placements to reality. Discovered that almost all of them in J6 were misplaced. So, I went back to my photos and verified that I repinned exactly as they were when I cracked open the backbox. Obviously, someone decided to make the job for the next guy harder than it had to be. I don't know how I ever got into diagnostics. I checked J5 and all of those are correct.

Now, that all wires are in their proper connector socket, the game boots up. I can access diagnostics but have some lingering switch issues. For some unknown reason several show up as closed when clearly open. I checked all the under playfield diode banks and all the diodes read good. None of the ten point switches register (ever), but all the rest of the switches seem to respond to a manual depression. The shooter switch only activates periodically when manually depressed and never when the ball is initially launched.

Most perplexing is that the bottom flippers never engage. Chris, I know you owned one of these. My understanding was that after a certain time elapsed or the ball hit the center switch beneath the mini playfield, that power left the upper and switched to the lower flippers. Even though that center switch registers when closed, I never get power transferred to the lower bats. I have a feeling that the shooter lane switch is key to starting the timer and does more than just provide a sound effect.

So, I can change the thread title now if you guys think it's appropriate.

Thanks for weighing in!

Unfortunately, the credit display underneath the apron only shows one digit (thanks again, joker that sold me this game) and I can only see the "tens" digits. So, I will either have to manually and methodically inspect most switches (visually, I have already done this), or hunt down a new display sooner rather than later.

OK, so I still have (at least three) issues...

Can't figure out the deal with the ten point switches. There are 8 of them and the schematic is wrong as to their locations which originally made them harder to trouble shoot. I have visually checked and adjusted all of them. They are open. We have continuity between all the switches and from the switches to the associated pin in the MPU connector. They never score when closed and always fail the diagnostic test.

My lower flippers still fail to ever activate. I am under the impression that the "A" relay activates them, but I am not sure how the relay "knows" when to pull in. The relay itself tests good. The diode on the relay tests good. I have continuity between the flippers and the relay. Is there a way to manually get the relay to pull in?

One of the pop bumpers refuses to activate. Again, coil and diode test good. Switch is clean and open/closes as expected. Driver board outputs a nice clean +5V.

So, yeah...we're getting closer, and maybe I have just been staring at it for too long, but I am out of ideas.

The boards are brand new, as are the ROMS, so I don't THINK pcbs are the issue...

Bump

Issue 1:
Per the schematic, the transistor in question is Q48 as it drives the AUX relay. The transistor tests "good". Upon having both backbox open and playfield up, I determined the relay IS pulling the switch closed. However, it NEVER releases. It is always engaged and getting +24V. I am thinking that when the relay is activated and the switch is CLOSED, the upper flippers are active. Once the relay releases/deactivates, the switch opens, sending power to the lower flippers.

Here's what's weird. This game is running the Swemmer boards with individual LEDS for every transistor. All of the LEDs light up correctly, trust me this took forever, but I tested one lamp/transistor (and the ball gate relay) at a time to confirm. The only exception is (of course) the Q48 LED. I would think the LED would constantly be on as the relay is always energized. Maybe the logic is reversed and the LED will light when the switch releases, but that would not be what I would expect. I still don't know how the relay knows when to turn "off" and redirect power, but am suspecting something from the CPU drives this. Again, my CPU is new, so could it possibly be a ROM issue? I am using freshly burnt ROMS, but at this point am not ruling out anything.

Issue 2:

So, after confirming all the wiring was good from coil/switch to PBDB, I really scrutinized the switch. For some reason even when closed, it was still registering as open. I cleaned it again, no dice. Readjusted the switch several times with the DMM attached to both leaves to determine when I finally got continuity and had success. Although the switch visually looks good, I'll replace it or reliability will be an issue. ISSUE RESOLVED. (Update: for the future traveller, this thread details the issue identified with the Pop Bumper switch https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-em-tech-tip-mystery-stuck-switches)

Issue 3:

On the contrary, they are ALWAYS showing closed in diagnostics. However, they are ALL open. I have checked and removed rubber and plastics to make sure that the rubber isn't closing a switch once in place. When the game is on and started they NEVER register regardless of which one is closed/depressed.