(Topic ID: 26318)

System 80 P/S #1 Rectifier connections - need help

By Matt_johnson

11 years ago


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    #1 11 years ago

    Bought a power supply kit (#1 inside the cab) from Big Daddy's and I have no idea how these should be wired. Can I safely assume that I can match up the wiring with the 90 degree prong in the lower left corner and the ground in the upper right?

    Thanks,

    // Error: Image 46077 not found //

    #2 11 years ago

    The corner with the 45 degree angle on it is the DC mark, it might also have some markings on the sides indicating this. From the top, it looks like you have it lined up correctly.

    #3 11 years ago

    Thanks!

    #4 11 years ago

    Oh, they are marked - the "~" symbol is for the alternating current from the transformer and it also has marks for the corresponding "+" "-" for the rectified DC coming out.

    I'm sure glad this wasn't the first machine I got because I would have never made it through this project.

    #5 11 years ago

    You have it right. Press on.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.Team-EM.com
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

    #6 11 years ago

    Thanks. Will do.

    #7 11 years ago

    I should have mentioned to make sure you have some "heat conductive" grease, as was used for the original installation.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.Team-EM.com
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #8 11 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    I should have mentioned to make sure you have some "heat conductive" grease, as was used for the original installation

    Yeah I didn't know that. I assumed this part was metal to metal. Thanks.

    #9 11 years ago

    I only did the solenoids (24v) rectifier and that already has fixed a couple of startup issues. I had a solenoid lock on at startup and the scoreboard was flickering (not like the slamtilt but just sort of random - I did the slamtilt mod right away) but now no lockups and a solid set of 0's. Oh, and no blown fuses

    No wonder tho, the old ones were rusted and corroded, not to mention they were 31 years old.

    I started at the power supply in the head and then rebuilt the acid damaged MPU, but I'm thinking I probably should have started at the cab power supply. Oh well. I guess I wanted to get the hard stuff out of the way. I have a few weeks to rebuild the electronics while my clear coat cures.

    #10 11 years ago

    Cool. Sounds like you are making good progress. We'd love to hear/see your results!
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.Team-EM.com
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #11 11 years ago

    Hey Chris,

    When you say heat conductive grease, is that the same thing as thermal paste, or am I out in left field? Sorry it high jack, but figured it was relevant...

    Luke

    #12 11 years ago
    Quoted from lukerp:

    Hey Chris,
    When you say heat conductive grease, is that the same thing as thermal paste, or am I out in left field? Sorry it high jack, but figured it was relevant...
    Luke

    Good question Luke.
    Even the RatShack carries the stuff...which is where I think I got my last tube from.
    http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102858

    A little goes a long way.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.Team-EM.com
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #13 11 years ago
    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    Cool. Sounds like you are making good progress. We'd love to hear/see your results!

    Damn, I did a boneheaded move, I had the playfield board disconnected. I forgot. It didn't actually fix anything, accept now the voltage is 30 rather than 20. The other ones look like hell but test in the correct range.

    I've kind of been putting off what I think is the root of this machine's problem while I take care of all the obvious upgrades. The wiring from the coin door had apparently been pinched in the door and the wires had shorted and melted together. I pulled them apart and individually wrapped them in electrical tape.. I'm no good at reading the schematics but I have a hunch that it's possible that it fried an IC on the MPU (all fuses check out). I'm thinking Z11 (it's the only one related to push buttons that I see) and possibly others. I don't have a logic probe but does any of that sound feasible?

    The machine only powers up the general illumination, scoreboard, and the shooter lane eject coil locks on. Nothing else.

    Thanks for the help guys!

    #14 11 years ago

    Matt,

    Fear not. It's all fixable.
    When you say that the scoreboard powers up, are you saying that each of the score displays shows all zeros. Or, do one or more displays have an abnormally bright single digit lit?

    The latter is an indication of an MPU not booting at all.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.Team-EM.com
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

    #15 11 years ago

    It is as Chris says ... fixable. Does the game boot to attract mode with all controlled lights going on and off and the displays alternating between HSTD and 0? Ideally, we want it to boot, it means a lot less work on your part. 30VDC at the bridge seems correct to me for coils when there is no load on them (one down).

    Get that power supply nice and solid before moving on to any troubleshooting. Be sure to re-flow all header pin to board solder connections on A2 if you haven't done it yet. An inconsistant power supply is not acceptable. Once the power supply is solid, then any troubleshooting needed can begin.

    #16 11 years ago

    I uploaded a video to my YT so you can see exactly how it starts. I have the driver board out ATM since one of the coils is locking on. Should I put it in and maybe pull the fuse to the coils?

    I replaced a resistor and zener diode on A2 and all of the test points check out with correct values so I think that is good. I also replaced the caps in A1. Connectors all "look" good and I checked the one that goes from A2 to the MPU and that was good. The MPU had minor acid damage and I replaced all of those parts and it didn't change anything.

    Video link:

    Here's a pic of the shorted wires:

    coin.jpgcoin.jpg

    #18 11 years ago
    Quoted from Matt_johnson:

    have the driver board out ATM since one of the coils is locking on

    I should say that startup isn't much different with the driver board plugged in.

    #19 11 years ago

    It's funny, I bought it from a guy that said he tried for a couple weeks to get it going but when I looked in the door I saw the burnt wires still stuck together. I didn't say anything but I followed the wires right to a burnt out fuse. I thought it was going to be an easy fix!

    #20 11 years ago

    Actually when I just put the driver board back in and turned it on I had the same coil lock on but also one of the kickers is firing like it's doing a ball search. Balls are in the trough.

    #21 11 years ago

    I think I found a problem.

    ic.jpgic.jpg

    #22 11 years ago

    It looks like your CPU board booted but it's difficult to tell with the driver board disconnected and no battery on the CPU board. If you have some coils turning off and on when you connect the driver board up, you may have a switch matrix issue telling the CPU board to turn on the coil(s) to clear a ball it think it sees. It's possible that Z11 on the CPU board got hot but that doesn't necessarily mean that the IC is shorted.

    Try unplugging A1J6 (along with the driver board) from the CPU board and turning on the game. Then try pressing the test button one time, then press the start button once, this should get you to test 16. Then press the test button until you get to test 18 (in the credit window). This will start the switch test, if you get anything other than a "99" in the credit window, write the numbers down and post them here. One of us will be able to tell you which switch matrix IC needs to be replaced.

    If you can't get the test button to work, be sure that the A1J5 connector pads are clean. If still nothing, give a good look with a meter at IC's Z14-4/5/6 and Z12-1/2. IIRC, there is test procedure up on PinWiki for testing these IC's.

    System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure

    #23 11 years ago

    It looks like Z11 has had better days. I don't think it has any smoke left in it.

    There may be other collateral damage to the other 7404 or to the adjacent 7400s.

    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://www.Team-EM.com
    http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball.htm
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

    #24 11 years ago

    Okay, thanks guys.

    Quoted from blownfuse:

    If you can't get the test button to work, be sure that the A1J5 connector pads are clean. If still nothing, give a good look with a meter at IC's Z14-4/5/6 and Z12-1/2. IIRC, there is test procedure up on PinWiki for testing these IC's.

    Yeah I don't get a response from any of the buttons on the coin door. But thanks I'll follow what you mentioned.

    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    It looks like Z11 has had better days. I don't think it has any smoke left in it.
    There may be other collateral damage to the other 7404 or to the adjacent 7400s.

    It's hard to tell from the pic but it's bulged on the side and the top where it's also cracked open a little. Fortunately I have one. I'll replace it tonight and go from there.

    Quoted from ChrisHibler:

    Fear not. It's all fixable.

    Thanks, I needed to hear that about now I have two weeks of my free time into the playfield so far. My 12yo daughter placed all of the components for the acid repair herself and I didn't double check her work. I really want to see this thing fire up, she'll be very proud. It just might really spark her interest in electronics.

    #25 11 years ago

    Yes, if the IC has swelled and cracked, it has to go. I couldn't see that from the picture on my monitor. Z11-10/11 controls the center coin switch as well as most of the playfield switches. The damage was probably the results of the pinched coin door wires.

    System 80, not just a job, it's an adventure

    Quoted from Matt_johnson:

    It's hard to tell from the pic but it's bulged on the side and the top where it's also cracked open a little. Fortunately I have one. I'll replace it tonight and go from there.

    #26 11 years ago

    Well guys I'm getting a little closer. Now the coin lockout coil is energizing (it hadn't been). The scoring displays still show 0's, flicker a little and then strobe. The next step in a proper startup would be credit display. The sound board doesn't boot up (maybe it does?) but I do get "sounds" occasionally.

    I'm going to finish upgrading the power supplies and add the ground mods and hopefully come across a bad connector or shorted wire and then I'll go back to diagnosing the boards. I am throwing around the idea of getting an all-in-one board (all the boards have had work done to them over the years) But I'd hate to get one and still have problems because of wiring and connectors. I don't know if I can rule that out until it finally fires up.

    That chip was really hard to remove! But I think I did my best solder job yet on the new one. I just hope I don't have to replace more of them.

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