(Topic ID: 131639)

System 7 won't boot up - error code 4

By Theonlylilo

8 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

View topic image gallery

Solder_side.jpg
Component_side.jpg

#1 8 years ago

Hello everybody! I'm trying to repair a Firepower 2, but i have mpu
trouble.
As soon as i turn the game on, the LEDs are on constant and
code 4 is on the segment led, which would mean a bad rom at ic17.
Shouldn't the LEDs be displaying 0 and locked on?
Then pressing the diag. button an error code should come up.
I have already change all the sockets (also for CPU) and ordered new roms set for it.
Why I don't have the "zero"???
Thanks a lot!!!

Ciaooo

#2 8 years ago

Bump

#3 8 years ago

I think you've already answered your own question. Bad ROM. Wait until the ROM shows up...then report back.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

#4 8 years ago

Thanks Chris for your answer.
My doubts are because in every guide on the web, for a locked mpu I must have the "zero" on the mini display.
Every other number (from 0 to 9) will be displayed only pressing the diagnostic pushbutton.
I've tried another set of ROM (from my Time Fantasy). Ok, they are not tested and I don't know if they function. But I have always the same code 4 as soon as the board is powered on. A coincidence?

#5 8 years ago

There are no coincidences with computers...

I've seen boards locked up with error codes before.
Zero is the "everything is OK" code. Normal boot is to show and retain the zero.
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.Team-EM.com
http://webpages.charter.net/chibler/Pinball/index.htm
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#6 8 years ago

Pull the ROMs. Still error 4 then i would guess more is going on.

When the CPU is really crashed out, it might not be booted up far enough to even put anything logical on the diag digit. The four could just an erroneous puke and that is what the PIA is outputting.

Once you get known good ICs, double check your socket work.

Also remember there are ROM socket jumper settings for System 7. A few games have different sized ROMs and jumpers are different. Also the sockets that use a 2532 ROM could be jumped for 2732 and vice versa.

http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_3_-_7#System_7_MPU_Jumper_Info
*** yikes that pinwiki jumper page needs more info, i wish i had more time to fix it up***

#7 8 years ago

I wouldn't put too much faith in the error codes. Many years ago (pre-internet) I spent hours trying to troubleshoot a Memory Protect error on a Barracora ultimately it was the actual CPU that was faulty.

This is from Clay's WMS Sys3- 7 pinball repair guide which may shed some light:

The Internal System3-System7 Diagnostic Firmware.
AKA, this is NOT "Bally World".
Lastly (really I promise!), the System3 to System7 internal diagnostic software is very limited. Remember the Bally power-on LED flash test, and how nifty that is at helping identify bad CPU board components? Well unfortunately, there is nothing like that in the Williams' firmware. Either a Williams system3 to system7 CPU/driver board boots, or it does not. There's not much middle ground here. The Williams' LED(s) at boot up provide some very basic information, but nothing like the information a Bally MPU LED provides. Yes there is a diagnostic test switch SW1 on the Williams CPU board. But in order for this test to work properly, the CPU board has to be successfully booted and running! But if the CPU board has successfully booted, the need for this test is really quite limited.

To make matters even worse, the diagnostic SW1 test, even on a working CPU board, can confuse even a veteran user. The diagnostics are a memory test only, and tests the CMOS RAM IC19 (5101) and the two static RAM chips (IC13/IC16). But the static RAMs IC13/IC16 rarely die. And the user will already know if the CMOS 5101 RAM is dead well before the diagnostics are run. If the game boots into "audits" mode, and the CPU batteries are good, it's 99% for sure the 5101 RAM is dead.

Also, even if the CPU board has seemingly "booted correctly", the flipper ROMs IC17 and IC20 can still have problems. These two ROMs hold the diagnostic code, and if one of these ROMs has a problem, false indications can result from the SW1 diagnostic switch (but usually the CPU board didn't boot anyway and the LEDs are indicating a locked-up board, and these two ROMs don't even get a chance to start working).

To make matters worse, the diagnostic LEDs just tend to confuse the newbie repair person. For example, the CPU board does not boot, but the user presses the diagnostic switch SW1 anyway. The LED reports back the suspected failed component. But that's the problem... since the CPU board never booted properly, the output from the diagnostic test CAN NOT be trusted! What ever the test indicates is surely incorrect, and the newbie is replacing good CPU board components, based on the failed/incorrect test results (I believe this is called, "chasing one's tail"). This is especially a problem if the newbie came from "Bally world", where Bally's LED actually has good boot-up component diagnostic results.

The bottom line is this: if the Williams System3-System6 CPU board's LEDs lock-on at power up, the CPU board is not working! Likewise for System7, if "0" comes on immediately at power-up, the CPU board is not working. Why that is happening, well, you're on your own to figure it out! Because the Williams diagnostic firmware is *not* going to help.

#8 8 years ago

Is my first sys7... I've a little bit of familiarity with sys4 to 6, but these sys7 seem completely different! .. my first time
So, the sockets are been already changed. Also the 6808 socket. I tested with multimeter the continuity between pads & tracks and they are ok. One of my limits is that I don't have any eeprom programmer, so I always have to buy from thirds (thanks J. Wart for your service!).
I also bought the Leon test rom for sys7... I have to wait its arrival then I will check the board behavior.
I saw the differences between jumpers, and the actual IC17 is a 2532 and the board is setted right..
When I come back to home after work, I will try to pull off the ROMs and to power the board... finger crossed for the zero!
Could a PIA error do this kind of trouble?

#9 8 years ago

News... maybe could help for the diagnosis.
I pulled off all the ROMs and the display, when the mpu is powered on, shows the "standard" error code zero.
Unfortunately, even today I haven't received the new set rom...

#10 8 years ago

With Leon test ROM in IC17, the leds and "zero" on the display blink as per program. With probe I've tested all the outputs of PIA 18 & 36 and I had no signal on pin 9 of IC36. I changed with new one but the same result... no activity.
Now, with the new romset, as soon as I turn the power on, the display show "1" (and only the lower led is on). I am a little bit confused...

#11 8 years ago

Pin 9 PA7 from (sound)PIA 5 is sometimes jumpered to Ground. It is normal behaviour. Is the board passing the memory test programmed in Leon's test Eprom? There are better alternatives nowadays for Leon's test ROM.

Marco

#12 8 years ago
Quoted from MarAlb:

Pin 9 PA7 from (sound)PIA 5 is sometimes jumpered to Ground. It is normal behaviour

It's good to know...
With Leon test rom, the zero and LEDs start to blink, then when I press the diag. button I immediately have the "1" displayed with the lower led lit.
But I also have this error code when I turn on the board...
Which alternatives you mean? Andre boot for example? I also have Leon test rom for sys 3 to 6 and works great...

#13 8 years ago

The "1" shown by the regular gamesoftware and the "1" shown by Leons' test ROM don't represent the same error.

Leons' test ROM is failing to pass the memory test. A "1" means one of the 2114 SRAM's doesn't pass the test, a "2" means the 5101 doesn't pass and a "3" means the 2nd 2114 SRAM fails to pass. The 2114-5101-2114 test order programmed by Leon is a bit odd (to me). If the gamesoftware is unable to acces the memory it will never run.

Although the "1" inidicates a failing 2114 SRAM it doesn't have to be the cause. Most of the times it is caused by a failing component elsewhere (it is my experience the 2114 chips rarely fail ). Try to remove the PIA's and the 5101 chip......if the memory test passes now for the first 2114 reinstall the removed chips (in a high quality socket please) 1 by 1 to find the culprit. Other causes can be a failing addresbus buffer chip, or a chip in the addressdecoding section. Is your board affected by leaking batteries in the past? If so: check traces. I didn't use Leons' test ROM for a long time already, maybe there are some other users here who can add some information and experiences.

Andre Boots' test ROM does a better job testing the memory chips. I also assembled a Williams test ROM which tests the memory chips more thoroughly and added some more bells and whistles like socket tests for IC14, 20 and 26, IRQ generator test, PIA init test, Switchmatrix input test for PIA2.

Marco

#14 8 years ago

Your argument is flawless!!! The "1" indicates two different issues.
And my principal problem and though is why I have the "1" on booting.
With old romset the code was "4", and now is changed to "1".
I've already changed all the sockets (double leaf) for the roms and the 6808 cpu. Also I socketed IC36 (I thought an error due to inactivity at pin 9). IC13 and IC16 are directly soldered on the board, as the 5101 chip. With Leon tes rom, the output of IC18 (pin 2 to 17) are ok, so this PIA could be considered fine. Where I can check? Unfortunately I've only this Leon test rom... and my multimeter / probe.
Have you any suggestions about?
The batteries have lost acid in the past, but in a previous repair, someone has cleaned and changed the damaged parts without solving the problem. So I offered my help to this "old guy", 'cause my familiarity with sys4 to 6. Now I don't want to make a bad impression

#15 8 years ago

Here two pics of the board, maybe they could help.
If anyone has some suggestions for me, is welcome!!!

Component_side.jpgComponent_side.jpg

Solder_side.jpgSolder_side.jpg

6 months later
#16 8 years ago

Hi to everybody! I'm resurrecting this old post only to inform you that the cpu board passes the bench test. The problem was a bad RAM in IC 16 (I changed also IC 13 ...)... Now I'm waiting my friend for a complete test report of the boards installed in its pinball!!!
Thanks guys

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 20.00
Playfield - Protection
arcade-cabinets.com
Protection
From: $ 9.00
Boards
KAHR.US Circuits
Boards
From: $ 1.00
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
$ 44.99
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Pinball Shark
Shooter rods
From: $ 1.25
Playfield - Other
Rocket City Pinball
Other
$ 12.50
Lighting - Led
RoyGBev Pinball
Led
$ 11.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
Eproms
$ 22.50
Magazines/books
Pinball Magazine
Magazines/books
$ 36.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
Eproms
From: $ 90.00
Tools
Pincoder Store
Tools
$ 1.00
Pinball Machine
Pinball Alley
Pinball Machine

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-7-wont-boot-up-error-code-4 and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.