(Topic ID: 108991)

System 7 boot problem (Jungle Lord)

By Inkochnito

9 years ago


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  • 11 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by Schwaggs
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blanking trace.jpg
#1 9 years ago

I have a working CPU board.
The driver board has its 40-pin connector replaced.
In essence the game is working as it should, but.......

When I turn the game power on, it blows the solenoids fuse.
If I pull all the solenoid connectors (2J9, 2J11 and 2J12) and then turn the power on all is good.
One by one (with the game on) I re-connect the connectors and all is fine.
I can play a game, all solenoids are working.
No burned out coils, everything is fine.

Just to be sure I've got the Blanking signal on the driver board, I connected a led and a resistor.
Now I can see the Blanking staying low on boot and go high after 1/2 a second.
The funny thing is that during the 1/2 second ALL solenoids are activated.
I've checked it by connecting only the first pin of 2J9 to a pin on the board.
The corresponding coil (a single drop target reset) activates for that 1/2 second until the Blanking goes high.
Then the coil deactivates and I can reconnect all to play a game.

Can someone help me in the right direction?

Peter
www.inkochnito.nl

#2 9 years ago

I assume you are monitoring the blanking signal on the CPU at TP4.

Have you confirmed the blanking signal is making it through the 40 pin to the driver board?

It comes across the 40 pin connector on pin 37. You can monitor it using a logic probe on driver board IC3 pin 3 (and on many other logic gate pins).

#3 9 years ago

I have the led mounted on the driver board.
So I watch the led on the driver board.
One side of the led is connected to ground.
So when it is off there is no blanking signal.
The led stays off at boot for 1/2 a second and then it stays lit.

A low blanking signal should not activate all solenoids, right?

Lamps, sound and displays are working correctly.
It is just the solenoids.

#4 9 years ago

Do you have a logic probe? Test the logic levels you get on the CPU board, IC7 (7404 hex inverter) pins 5 and 6 with game power on, game not started then again with a game started.

#5 9 years ago

The problem is on the driver board.
When I exchange the cpu board the problem persists.

#6 9 years ago

Saw this tip from barakandl in another post. Check for an open trace on the driver board.

blanking trace.jpgblanking trace.jpg

#7 9 years ago
Quoted from mwsmith:

Saw this tip from barakandl in another post. Check for an open trace on the driver board.

blanking trace.jpg 84 KB

If that trace highlighted is open, all the solenoids pull in until the valid reset goes high. This will blow your solenoid fuse.

#8 9 years ago

Possible that the trace break is on pin 37 of the interconnect on the CPU side. Buzz it out!

#9 9 years ago

I've checked the Jungle Lord driver board and all is fine.
I put the Jungle Lord driver board in a known working Laser Cue game and all is fine.
When I put the Laser Cue driver board in the Jungle Lord, the problem is still present in the Jungle Lord game.
That leaves me to believe that the problem is in the MPU board.

What I don't get is that the Blanking signal is absent for 1/2 sec. and then goes high, but all the solenoids get activated for 1/2 sec. without that signal.
The signal is fed through an AND gate and must have both inputs high to get a high on the output.
Otherwise no high output signal, but still the output goes high with a low from the Blanking....

The Pinwiki has no info on my problem....

#10 9 years ago

This is what I found on Clay's repair guide:

"Since the blanking signal is ANDed with the output of the driver board PIAs, the driver transistors won't ground (energize) a coil unless a high signal comes from both the PIA and the blanking circuit. That is, both the blanking signal and the PIA output must be high to fire a coil. So how can the blanking signal cause all the coils or lamps to lock-on at power on? A high blanking signal will not cause the solenoids or lamps to lock-on, as this is normal in-game operation. However if the blanking signal is lost from the CPU to driver board through a broken 40 pin inter-connector, this will cause the solenoids and/or lamps to latch 'on'. Because now the blanking input to the AND gates will be left floating (undefined) with no clear logic level. You can easily correct this by making sure that 40 pin interconnector has been replaced. In addition, all PIAs come out of reset at power-on with their ports configured as inputs, until reprogrammed by the CPU. If the CPU board does not run because it's faulty, and the blanking signal is missing on the driver board, you have a mix that can cause the AND gates to possibly switch to an 'on' state (documented by Clive). This can cause all the game's coils and lamps to lock on."

So my signal has to be floating at boot.
But I know the interboard connector is good.
It has to be something in the Blanking circuit that keeps it from really going low.

#11 9 years ago

Check the inputs and outputs of the hex inverter I posted earlier and let us know what it is doing at powerup and after you start a game. You can also check the transistor that follows in that circuit.

You should also check the CPU side of the 40 pin to make sure it has a solid solder joint,good pin and the traces in that area are good (pin 37).

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