(Topic ID: 246413)

Fixed: System 11A to 11B MPU sound issue (Earthshaker)


By Mneubey

14 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 16 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 days ago by ChrisHibler
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 2 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_2653.JPG
IMG_2652.JPG

#1 14 days ago

I picked up an Earthshaker the other day, and noticed the voices were much softer than the music and sound effects - I previously had an ES that I'd swapped my Pinbot board into temporarily that had the same issue a few years ago, so that's the first place I looked. When I checked the code on the sticker on the MPU, it turn it originally came out of an F14. Does this require me to populate the sound section in the upper left portion of the MPU, or is there something else I should try?

#2 14 days ago

EarthShaker is an 11b game, so it does not use the amplifiers on the MPU board, so the amp section of the board does not need to be populated. You issue with the soft voices and sounds may be related to the mixing section of your sound board.

#3 14 days ago

That's what I assumed as well about the amp section, but it's curious that the exact same thing happened with a different ES with a different 11A MPU. When I put the 11B in my Pinbot previously, Pinbot's voice was way louder than it normally would have been with the original 11A board.

Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

EarthShaker is an 11b game, so it does not use the amplifiers on the MPU board, so the amp section of the board does not need to be populated. You issue with the soft voices and sounds may be related to the mixing section of your sound board.

#4 14 days ago

There are some differences in capacitors between System 11/A/B boards as listed in the manual. I've learned not to 100% trust the Williams manuals but I did notice that the System 11 board I have as a sample has different capacitors than the System 11B boards that I have. I do not have a System 11A machine nor board to compare to.

IMG_2652.JPGIMG_2653.JPG
#5 11 days ago

Fixed the issue - I guess I was always under the impression that there would be no issues when using a system 11A with an 11B game, and maybe it's just more noticeable in ES, but I learned quite a bit in the last 24 hrs or so, and wanted to share my findings just in case it helps someone along the way. PS - Sorry if this is covered in another thread, I just hadn't come across one, and the more the merrier.

Super close by both responses above -

I looked at schematics, and it looks like sound/speech mixer section of the mpu has a different set of resistors and caps for 11B vs 11A (consistently through several examples of both 11A and B). I haven't picked up the caps yet, but I got a perfect mix with an 11A MPU in an 11B game with the following resistors swapped out.

R21 needs to be 12K in 11B, and 15K in 11A
R22 needs to be 22K in 11B, and 27K in 11A
R19 needs to be 56K in 11B, and 27K in 11A
R16 needs to be 180K in 11B, and 56K in 11A
R17 needs to be 270K in 11B, and 220K in 11A
R15 needs to be 180K in 11B, and 43K in 11A
R20 needs to be 12K in 11B, and 27K in 11A

The following caps are different as well (although I haven't personally swapped them yet)

C12 needs to be 470pf in 11B, and 1200pf in 11A
C11 needs to be 100pf in 11B, and 180pf in 11A
C10 needs to be 470pf in 11B, and 1800pf in 11A

The pics in the previous post are exactly of that area on the MPU.

Anyway, it worked for me, hope it helps someone else out as well.

#6 11 days ago

Just swapped out the caps, and everything is perfect. Before doing so, the voices seemed a bit grainy - It's perfect now from what I can tell.

#7 10 days ago

Thanks for this info.
Would you mind if I replicated it in the PinWiki System 11 section?
Thanks!

--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#8 10 days ago

Please do!

Quoted from ChrisHibler:

Thanks for this info.
Would you mind if I replicated it in the PinWiki System 11 section?
Thanks!
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#9 10 days ago

Wonder if this is some of the issues people are having with the new repro boards?

#10 10 days ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Wonder if this is some of the issues people are having with the new repro boards?

I was thinking this exact thing.

#11 10 days ago

It’s interesting that no one has found this before it seems. Clay’s guides state that the 11A board is the most compatible and works with almost everything. While it may boot and “work”, the differences in the sound mix section are enough for me to think twice. It could be also that Earthshaker in particular is more sensitive to the differences than other games.

#13 7 days ago

@dumbass ... can I also use your pictures in the PinWiki?
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

#14 6 days ago

Sure. I think System 11 board is slightly out of focus. I can take another one that's sharper if you'd like.

#15 6 days ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Sure. I think System 11 board is slightly out of focus. I can take another one that's sharper if you'd like.

That would be awesome. I noticed that...but beggars can't be choosy.
I like to have the highest resolution available in all the Wiki pics that I post enabling zooming down to read resistor colors if necessary. The identical camera perspectives when comparing boards helps too.

Emailing the images to chrishiblerpinball -AT- gmail.com is the best way for me to receive the full resolution images.

Thank you sir!
Chris

#16 5 days ago

For posterity....thanks to @dumbass for crisp, clear images, which I've added to the PinWiki here:
http://www.pinwiki.com//wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Voice_callouts_are_much_softer_than_music.2Fsound
--
Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
http://www.ChrisHiblerPinball.com/Contact
http://www.PinWiki.com - The Place to go for Pinball Repair Info

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 279.95
From: $ 16.95
$ 40.00
Lighting - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
3,995
Machine - For Sale
West Chicago, IL
Wanted
Machine - Wanted
Cherry Hills Village, CO
From: $ 5.00
Cabinet - Other
Rock Custom Pinball
3,995
Machine - For Sale
West Chicago, IL
$ 10.00
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
$ 39.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 19.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
2,000
Sale Pending!
Waynesboro, PA

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside