(Topic ID: 293203)

System 11A Display issue - Millionaire Display half out

By GraniteStatePin

2 years ago


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#1 2 years ago

I have a Millionaire that P1 and P3 displays are out on. When dark in room you can see the little dot of orange glow on bottom edges of P2 and P4 (besides the actual digits being lit) but P1+3 have no such sign of life, no glow anywhere, completely dark

Looking for things I can check / ways I can confirm they are bad before I buy new.

I do not have another machine compatible that I can swap things over to check. I'm a novice at best with electronics but I'm open to suggestions.

thanks for any insight

#2 2 years ago
Quoted from GraniteStatePin:

I have a Millionaire that P1 and P3 displays are out on. When dark in room you can see the little dot of orange glow on bottom edges of P2 and P4 (besides the actual digits being lit) but P1+3 have no such sign of life, no glow anywhere, completely dark
Looking for things I can check / ways I can confirm they are bad before I buy new.
I do not have another machine compatible that I can swap things over to check. I'm a novice at best with electronics but I'm open to suggestions.
thanks for any insight

If you hold the displays one at a time up close to one of these you will be able to see if they have life. If absolutely nothing lights up its dead and gassed out. If you see little flickers of plasma come to life your display is good.

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#3 2 years ago

For what it's worth... I'd just buy the new xpin LED displays. Then sell your remaining displays to someone else looking for the old style.

http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/ProductPages/XPINWilliamsDisplayBoards.html

These look great and you wont have to worry about any loss of display for many many years.

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

For what it's worth... I'd just buy the new xpin LED displays. Then sell your remaining displays to someone else looking for the old style.
http://www.bigdaddy-enterprises.com/ProductPages/XPINWilliamsDisplayBoards.html
These look great and you wont have to worry about any loss of display for many many years.

Thanks for the replying, I've read about the electric ball trick but I'm assuming you have to desolder each display before trying that so you don't fry anything.

Thats actually also why I want info about things I can test, I'm not sure something isn't bad up the chain so I'd hate to order a new display, install and fry it. thanks

#5 2 years ago

I do it on the 80s bally/ stern displays without desoldering the small board that it is attached to. I have not needed to try system 11 displays yet though. Obviously it is not plugged into the machine and easy as pie to see if a glass has gassed out. I seriously doubt it will harm any components on the display board.

**note** this trick does not work on DMD displays.

#6 2 years ago
Quoted from GraniteStatePin:

Looking for things I can check / ways I can confirm they are bad before I buy new.

Check the schematic for where the P1+3 gets input gnd, +100vdc and -100vdc.

Use a voltmeter to confirm the presence of all expected voltages at the actual display finger input pins.

If any of those voltages arent making it to the actual P1+3 pins, the problem is on the display board components or connectors and displays are likely not outgassed.

#7 2 years ago
Quoted from Spybryon:

Check the schematic for where the P1+3 gets input gnd, +100vdc and -100vdc.
Use a voltmeter to confirm the presence of all expected voltages at the actual display finger input pins.
If any of those voltages arent making it to the actual P1+3 pins, the problem is on the display board components or connectors and displays are likely not outgassed.

Thanks Spy, I read about that and was going to check next time I have a chance. Was also reading about reversing the ribbon cable too.

#8 2 years ago

Do you get any signs of life from display 1 and 3 while in display test mode?

#9 2 years ago
Quoted from Gotpins:

Do you get any signs of life from display 1 and 3 while in display test mode?

Nothing in auto or manual display test, no digits no segments, all dark. thanks

#10 2 years ago

Did you try swapping the displays and seeing if they work? For example, plug the P1 display into the P2 spot. If it still doesn't work, then you know the issue is somewhere on the display itself and can start diagnosing from there.

#11 2 years ago

Just to paint a more detailed picture this is what I know so far....

Reversing ribbon cable yields same results, P1+P3 still out.

No signs of life, digits or segments from display test mode, auto or manual.

I have continuity from all wire connectors going from display board to matching connectors on other boards

Coming into display board at connector 4J2 reads +4.9 , -103.6 and +106.9

ALL following readings where taken in display test mode with manual all digits/segments on and all displays constantly on at same time (another words not auto scrolling through and not digits turning off and on,)

Working P4 7 digit/segment display pins 7 and 31 read -65.4 while pins 6 and 34 read +58.8

Non-working P3 7 digit/segment display pins 7 and 31 read -94.2 while pins 6 and 34 read -71.3 ..... all negative readings???

Didn't know what pins on the alphanumeric were corresponding but probed all and was getting readings on the high ones up around +/- 94

Pictures below are pic 1 and 2 of P1+P3, flash and no flash ....can definitely see a bunch of speckles/dots in P1 not present in P2
Pictures 3 and 4 are of working P2 + P4, flash an no flash

although P2 is working it seems not solid at times and like its on its way out. Can definitely see what looks like burn in picture 3

thanks all for helping out! At this point i'm assuming displays will need to be replaced but as said before my biggest concern is if something needs attention up the chain so I don't install new displays or working old ones and just fry them.

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#12 2 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

Did you try swapping the displays and seeing if they work? For example, plug the P1 display into the P2 spot. If it still doesn't work, then you know the issue is somewhere on the display itself and can start diagnosing from there.

Unfortunately on this model the displays are all on 1 board so you can't easily swap them around via connectors. thanks

#13 2 years ago

How are your nipples? Some display glasses have nipples and some don't. Sometimes the display glasses can become unglued and flop around and the nipples get broken. If yours are broken, then the magic gas got away, and you will need a new display glass.

#14 2 years ago
Quoted from GraniteStatePin:

Unfortunately on this model the displays are all on 1 board so you can't easily swap them around via connectors. thanks

Sorry probably should have been more clear, you don't need to move the display glass, just swap the ribbon cables plugged into the display board. So plug the one currently in player 1 into the player 2 spot and move player 2's ribbon cable to player 1.

#15 2 years ago

After a nipple check, I'd inspect the header pins on the display and their associated connectors. Look for cold solder joints on the header pins and loose wires or broken/ loose prongs on the connectors. Wiggle the connectors while in display test mode and see if your displays come to life.

#16 2 years ago
Quoted from grantopia:

Sorry probably should have been more clear, you don't need to move the display glass, just swap the ribbon cables plugged into the display board. So plug the one currently in player 1 into the player 2 spot and move player 2's ribbon cable to player 1.

Cant do that on this board either. All displays are on one board with one ribbon cable.

#17 2 years ago
Quoted from Gotpins:

After a nipple check, I'd inspect the header pins on the display and their associated connectors. Look for cold solder joints on the header pins and loose wires or broken/ loose prongs on the connectors. Wiggle the connectors while in display test mode and see if your displays come to life.

As far as I remember my nips are good, i'll have to look closer when I can. Header pins, connectors, joints etc. and all looked good, wiggles was the first thing I did with the connectors.

Does the duel negative readings on the non-working 7 digit dispaly (P3) mean anything?

And that all my readings are low on P3 and P4? Supposed to be +100v and -100v according to manual

thanks

#18 2 years ago
Quoted from GraniteStatePin:

Coming into display board at connector 4J2 reads +4.9 , -103.6 and +106.9 [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Looks like you have the proper voltages at connector 4J2. I don’t have a schematic of the display board itself to follow power distribution on the board. I would think that if 4J2 has correct voltages then the display glasses are bad. In the pics you provided, the digit segments look like they have been active for a long time. Perhaps it’s time for a new display.

#19 2 years ago

I concur, thanks for the input!

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