System 11 won&#039;t boot

I've been slowly getting my Grand Lizard going and it's a Frankenstein to say the least. It has an F-14 11a cpu in it. I've changed all the Game Roms and also had to replace some other parts that had been taken off the board for some unknown reason.

My question is will a System 11a board boot without the battery holder assembly?

Right now, when turned on I get the 5v LED to light and the Diagnostic light on. Constant. The Blanking light flickers once upon power up. The Oscillation light blink 7-8 times with a clicking noise once.

Any thoughts?

#2 8 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

#3 8 years ago

ECB

erak

Pinside member

Grimsby, ON

15y 122K 3,749 5 86

Yes system 11's will boot without batteries.
But boot to memory failure on the displays. So you need to hit the coindoor buttons every time on startup. To clear the error. Then set all adjustments free play etc every time.

You probably know about this, but if not, check here for repair and troubleshooting.
This might help with your other problem.
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index1.html

#4 8 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

I have only one cable J17 hooked to the cpu currently as I was just trying to get this to boot. How do you know it boots with everything unhooked? What lights should be on?

#5 8 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

So, without the battery holder installed, the board will "fail"? And without all the cables hooked up, I wouldn't be able to get it past this "fail"? Correct? With only J17 giving the board it's 5v 12v and ground what would be the result of starting it up?

#6 8 years ago

JWJ

johnwartjr

That Pinball Place

Columbus, IN

12y 77,400 6,479 14

For the CPU to boot, all you need is 1J17 connected.

Normal MPU boot behavior for games with 3 LEDs instead of the 7-segment display on the MPU is for the "+5 VDC" LED to light first and stay on, then a split second later, the blanking LED will light and stay on. At the same time that the blanking LED lights, the diagnostic LED will begin to blink at a fairly rapid pace with a 50% duty cycle (equal durations of the LED being on then off). The blanking LED will continue to remain on.

#7 8 years ago

ROB

Borygard

LockWhenLit.com

St Louis, MO

11y 90,050 2,915

Quoted from johnwartjr:
For the CPU to boot, all you need is 1J17 connected.
Normal MPU boot behavior for games with 3 LEDs instead of the 7-segment display on the MPU is for the "+5 VDC" LED to light first and stay on, then a split second later, the blanking LED will light and stay on. At the same time that the blanking LED lights, the diagnostic LED will begin to blink at a fairly rapid pace with a 50% duty cycle (equal durations of the LED being on then off). The blanking LED will continue to remain on.

If he's got Grand Lizard ROMs in the board though, the LED diagnostic won't apply. Grand Lizard is one of the four System 11 boards, so diagnostics will be for the 7-segment, but he's got a board with the three individual LEDs.

Connect all the connectors on the top on the board. This should give you displays if the board is booting.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#8 8 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Would you mind posting a picture of the MPU so we can see any potential battery acid damage?
Also to have a look at the jumpers/RAM chip installed.

#9 8 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

Absolutely, here it is.

IMG_0143[1]_(resized).JPG

IMG_0144[1]_(resized).JPG

#10 8 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Must be me, but I'm not seeing any shiny solder on that board. Time to look for another board in my opinion.

#11 8 years ago

ROB

Borygard

LockWhenLit.com

St Louis, MO

11y 90,050 2,915

Wow! I'm not sure I've said this about any board before, but that thing is trash. Lots of clean up to the point that a lot of mask on the entire board is delaminating. Almost every component lead and solder point is tarnished/corroded.

--
Rob Anthony
Pinball Classics
http://LockWhenLit.com
Quality Board Work - In Home Service
borygard at gmail dot com

#12 8 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

Well that's just some bad news all around. Crap.

#13 8 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

Anyone have a system 11 board for sale?

#14 8 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

Or an 11a?

#15 8 years ago

DEC

GRUMPY

Pinside member

10y 95,050 8,702

Was that board left outside in the sun for a year or two, I have never seen the entire board like that before.

#16 8 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

I bought this off of Todd(Big Daddy Enterprises). I was just getting into Pins and had done a couple SS Bally machines so I thought this would be a good "next" step. He was upfront and told me the MPU was from an F-14 but should work with ROMs and whatever mods needed to make it to a an 11 board. Put the game aside for a few months as I had 2 other machines to work on. Started Grand Lizard and first thing about the board is the ROMs were not there, knew that, but also 4 other chips were missing. Just taken off the board. So I researched and found what they were, ordered them, put sockets on and that's where I am today.

Lifted the play field and about 20 percent of the wires are chewed thru by mice.

FML

I think this machine will end up in the garage in storage for awhile unless I can find decently priced parts, which I'm finding is an Oxymoron with this system.

It looks like I need a new MPU, an auxiliary sound card, and alpha numeric displays.

Nothing but fun.

IMG_0043[1]_(resized).JPG

#17 8 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Why do you say you would need an auxiliary, sound card, and alpha numeric displays?

If the game does not boot, the displays will not display anything. I think the same would be true with the other boards.
Best thing to do is find another game to test out the other boards before you say you are in need of them.

#18 8 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

No, I'm saying that because I don't have them.LOL The game was missing the Alpha displays and the sound card, so I need those. I just didn't think I would have to buy a MPU.

#19 8 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Well....damn !

#20 8 years ago

MAR

MarAlb

Pinside member

Zeist

9y 53,650 814 19

Maybe someone drenched this board in pure vinegar for some time.....you get a similar effect, everything blackens. I've seen it before unfortunately.

Marco

1 month later

#21 7 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

So, my update. Got a brand new aux sound card, new Xpin LED display set up, and I purchased a "working" 11a board with no rom installed. Put everything in, but new board only lights up the 5v led light and absolutely no displays. Light on the Xpin driver board is lit but no display. Push the test button on the Xpin driver board and nothing.

Can someone take my two 11a boards and make one working Grand Lizard board? Please.

Yes, at this point I'm begging. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've been told it could be the two (6802?) chips as these were on my old board and put on the new board. Jumper on new board at W16 was removed as these two chips are not Motorolla.

Urggggghhhhhh.

#22 7 years ago

BAD

Brtlkat

Pinside member

Fort Pierce, FL

11y 52,050 1,511 14

The cpu will not boot up without the game roms installed.

#23 7 years ago

BAD

Brtlkat

Pinside member

Fort Pierce, FL

11y 52,050 1,511 14

OP
Quoted from ChanningD:
So, my update. Got a brand new aux sound card, new Xpin LED display set up, and I purchased a "working" 11a board with no rom installed. Put everything in, but new board only lights up the 5v led light and absolutely no displays. Light on the Xpin driver board is lit but no display. Push the test button on the Xpin driver board and nothing.
Can someone take my two 11a boards and make one working Grand Lizard board? Please.
Yes, at this point I'm begging. I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I've been told it could be the two (6802?) chips as these were on my old board and put on the new board. Jumper on new board at W16 was removed as these two chips are not Motorolla.
Urggggghhhhhh.

and without the game roms you will have no displays

#24 7 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

OP
Quoted from ChanningD:
I purchased a "working" 11a board with no rom installed. Put everything in, but new board only lights up the 5v led light and absolutely no displays. Light on the Xpin driver board is lit but no display. Push the test button on the Xpin driver board and nothing.

Did you transfer the Game ROMs from the damaged MPU ?

#25 7 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

Brand new Game and Sound roms installed.

#26 7 years ago

BAD

Brtlkat

Pinside member

Fort Pierce, FL

11y 52,050 1,511 14

Snap a pic of the new cpu and post it.

#27 7 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Quoted from Brtlkat:
Snap a pic of the new cpu and post it.

With it connected in the game with the game turned on, would be nice.

#28 7 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

pics of board before chip installation

11a1_(resized).jpg

11a_(resized).jpg

11a2_(resized).jpg

11a3_(resized).jpg

#29 7 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

I seen a board like that board on Ebay. That one still has some acid damage to the parts that are to the left of the battery pack. Board cannot function either without the 6802 IC's.

Was this advertised to have been a "working" board?

#30 7 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

I have the 6208 from my old non working board. Board supposedly would boot. Had work done on it due to acid damage.

#31 7 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
With it connected in the game with the game turned on, would be nice.

When it's in the game and turned on, only the 5v present led is lit. Nothing else. I didn't hook everything up as well. Only the power and display cables.

#32 7 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Can you please post a picture of the board with the parts installed, including the game ROMs?
Trying to make sure everything is installed correctly. Thing is there still is acid damage on your replacement board that needs to be taken care of.

#33 7 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

Will do when I get back to the house. Thanks

#34 7 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member

Here's the board, roms installed power on.

image_(resized).jpeg

#35 7 years ago

BTF

PinballManiac40

Pinside+ Frequent

Both ROMs seem to have a leg or 2 not seated in the socket. You need to pull them out and straighten out the legs and try again. What I cannot tell is whether the notch at the top of the ROMs are in the correct direction.

ROMS_(resized).png

#36 7 years ago

WTS

WonkoTSane

Inactive member

9y 44,150 655 43

Quoted from PinballManiac40:
What I cannot tell is whether the notch at the top of the ROMs are in the correct direction.

The chips look like they are in the correct direction but not having all of the legs in place is a show stopper. It will be even worse if some of the legs are folded under too.

#37 7 years ago

CAD

ChanningD

Inactive member