(Topic ID: 302745)

System 11 Whirlwind Sporadic Boot Up Issue

By DANGERTERROR

2 years ago


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  • 13 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by emk101
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

My Whirlwind has a strange boot up issue, the MPU board doesn’t always boot, it’s pretty rare that it does. Instead the 5v and PIA leds on the Rottendog board lock on and the blanking stays off. The Rottendog is new, I swapped it in after the original MPU had this same issue. The original MPU did not give off any flashing error and locked in the exact same way. It hums quite loud as it doesn’t boot. So since it’s not the board, I figure it’s going be:

-The ROM or processor chips failing
-A power supply issue (although voltage at test points, though a little low, seems fine).
-A bad connector or ribbon cable (but I have reseated these many times now with no obvious effects)

How can I diagnose, take next steps here? Is there a bridge that could be causing this maybe? Help is appreciated!

It will suddenly pop on and play normally after a restart sometimes.

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#2 2 years ago

is the rottendog set up for the correct System 11? A b or c? Rottendog does have issue with system 11's. And the chips you had to transfer from your original board to the rottendog might be one of the issues.

#3 2 years ago

It’s the board that works for all eras of System 11 and it’s marked WHIRLWIND on the printed front of the RD board too. But yeah could be the ROMs.

Note that the exact same issue occurs with the original board as the RD.

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from DANGERTERROR:

-A bad connector or ribbon cable (but I have reseated these many times now with no obvious effects)

IDC connectors often fail where the wire is pushed into the connector. This could be the case on your game if the old board and the new one are doing the same thing. Re-seating the connectors to the board wouldn't change much. Now if it is a connector with this issue, I wouldn't know which one. Sometimes you can get a problem like that to surface with gentle wire wiggling while the game is on. If one has an effect, re-pin it. I hope you didn't toss the original MPU. It is probably still good.

#5 2 years ago

I will explore the IDCs, definitely have had poorly pinched IDC wiring before in games!

Old MPU is def good (better, even) and I operate tons of games, including Sys11s no never get rid of anything ha!

#6 2 years ago

From another thread:

“ For the CPU to boot, all you need is 1J17 connected.
Normal MPU boot behavior for games with 3 LEDs instead of the 7-segment display on the MPU is for the "+5 VDC" LED to light first and stay on, then a split second later, the blanking LED will light and stay on. At the same time that the blanking LED lights, the diagnostic LED will begin to blink at a fairly rapid pace with a 50% duty cycle (equal durations of the LED being on then off). The blanking LED will continue to remain on.”

Sounds like IJ17 would be the weak point. However, I’m getting what I think is within tolerance 5v and 12v at board test points. It’s lower (and 5v led is lit).

#7 2 years ago

I think you are on the right track thinking questionable CPU or EPROM.

I assume you transferred the CPU, ROMS, PIAs from your old board to this one. You may have transferred the problem to this board.

Do you have another system 11 game to test with?

There are 2 6802 processors on the board, try swapping them to see if the problem changes.

#8 2 years ago

I transferred the ROMs and processors but PIAs I did not, they come with the new board.

I ordered new WW ROMs and I can swap the 6802s, was just considering that test, thanks for that. I have several Sys 11s I can try the 6802s in as well. Will report back.

2 weeks later
#9 2 years ago

I’ve replaced ROMs, the board itself, and swapped the 6802s, all to no effect.

The game powers on after about 10 minutes of not booting. Then works mostly but glitches out, loses ball count, adds credits. Insane.

Could this be a flaky PS? Caps or something “warming up”? Maybe 5v voltage is slightly low until it isn’t?

#10 2 years ago

Could be. Seems you ruled out the other suspects. Check the power supply board for cold solder joints on the header pins. Reflow solder to each pin. Look for tarnished or burned connectors.

#11 2 years ago

Swap the PS with one of your route games just to test it.

#12 2 years ago
Quoted from DANGERTERROR:

Could this be a flaky PS? Caps or something “warming up”? Maybe 5v voltage is slightly low until it isn’t?

You need to measure the 5V with a meter to find out. Otherwise, it is just a guess.

4 months later
#13 2 years ago

Is there an update on this?

I have a Rottendog (9211) board in a Fire that doesn't seem to be booting (although this one doesn't click on after any amount of time).

I have what looks like data on the CPU pins, I swapped the CPU's with known good ones, have good voltages at the test points (0 at blanking)
No blanking LED, PIA and 5V stay on solid
Nothing other than GI.

Also replaced the PIA at U10

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