New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 266762)

System 11 Super Sad, Sluggish Bumpers (High Speed)


By DANGERTERROR

7 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 17 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 6 months ago by DANGERTERROR
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    Topic Gallery

    There have been 3 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    27CD7A8B-3D26-4403-8CE7-F5333E9C1F86 (resized).jpeg
    529D8E2B-5B79-4425-B1E2-DC63616E3706 (resized).jpeg
    B3430974-B042-4E88-BB65-D83581470D73 (resized).jpeg

    #1 7 months ago

    No matter what I adjust, all three bumpers on a PF swapped high speed are incredibly limp and weak.

    Any ideas on what could cause this? It’s weird that it’s all three... I replaced the switch stacks which have the cap/resistors which I’ve checked. Should be wired fine but could this be the caps?

    B3430974-B042-4E88-BB65-D83581470D73 (resized).jpeg
    #2 7 months ago

    35v at the lugs.

    They just kinda weak plunge and I can hold them up with my finger. Little resistance. So frustrating.

    #3 7 months ago

    The cap/resistor form a timing circuit called an RC network (guess why!) - it's there to provide a minimum pulse time so the coil reaction isn't too short.

    Pull the connector off the input and try grounding the input pins on your mpu board that control each pop see if it's better - if it is, you have a bad ground going to your activating switches.

    The inputs for the special solenoids are connector J18. Don't dwell on the pins too long or you'll blow a fuse/transistor - just a touch like you were testing the coil under the playfield via the transistor tab.

    There could be cracked headers on your mpu as well - if they've never been resoldered, might be time. Suck most of the solder off first, don't just glob new/more solder on.

    2 weeks later
    #4 7 months ago

    I tested this. Activating these pins absolutely fixes it and the coils fire much more powerfully.

    What’s the remedy here? Just repin the Connector on MPU?

    #5 7 months ago
    Quoted from slochar:

    There could be cracked headers on your mpu as well - if they've never been resoldered, might be time. Suck most of the solder off first, don't just glob new/more solder on.

    I would try this next.

    #6 7 months ago

    Ok: on it. Anything else it could be? Just because I am always wanting to learn!

    #7 7 months ago

    Replaced the connector with a trifurcon molex. No change.

    I’m thinking it’s the new switch stacks I put in. They have different tabs than the originals and I think they just aren’t wired right.

    529D8E2B-5B79-4425-B1E2-DC63616E3706 (resized).jpeg
    #8 7 months ago

    Originals

    27CD7A8B-3D26-4403-8CE7-F5333E9C1F86 (resized).jpeg
    #9 7 months ago

    You sure you have the correct value cap in the circuit and it's pointing the correct direction? Sometimes the old caps are marked with the line meaning +, not -. Even new ones are sometimes different.

    The lack of a tie point for the cap/resistor connection has no bearing on the circuit, it's just a convenient tie point.

    #10 7 months ago

    Yet I still managed to screw it up! I really can’t see how.

    I completely reversed one pop and went back to the old switch stack, cap, diode, and resistor. And pop was perfect.

    I legitimately can’t see why. Everything should be wired the same, even without the tie points.

    #11 7 months ago

    Looks a bit like your new switches have large high current contact points, for direct connection to coil. These do not work very well with the CPU boards low current input.

    #12 6 months ago

    I have never heard of such a thing. Fascinating. That is probably it as getting the leaf contacts just so was also tremendously frustrating.

    #13 6 months ago

    That really is strange, one would think that if a contact works well with high current, it should be even better with low current. But I have run into similar problems before, with high current contacts in a Fliptronic EOS switch. Maybe it has something to do with the voltage, high current points being silver alloy, and low current points are gold plated. Silver gets oxidized and low voltage does not make through the oxide.

    #14 6 months ago

    I had a similar problem when I put the wrong switch contacts on my Getaway flipper buttons. High current ones didn’t work, only low current ones did.
    Hmph....

    #15 6 months ago

    I’m going to just crack the switch stack and replace the skirt/cup switch with the original to test. Less soldering!

    #16 6 months ago

    your switch's shouldn't have anything to do with how strong the coil fires, just how long.
    If you said that jumping the coil to ground it fires good and strong, then you
    should have a grounding problem somewhere.
    Also isn't 35 volts low for the coils??
    I don't have a manual to check but I though they were 45volt coils.

    #17 6 months ago

    The latest is that returning to the old switch fixed the issue. Not sure why.

    Wouldn’t a shorter coil firing time result in weak pop action anyway?

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 9.99
    From: $ 19.95
    Apparel - Unisex
    Pinball Wheezer
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 3.49
    Playfield - Other
    Pin Monk
    $ 265.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Pinball Mod Co.
    $ 79.99
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    $ 149.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Sparky Pinball
    From: € 35.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Creo Pinball
    $ 104.00
    Boards
    nvram.weebly.com
    $ 19.95
    $ 999.00
    Flipper Parts
    Mircoplayfields
    From: $ 449.00
    $ 16.00
    $ 0.00
    Playfield - Other
    PinJewels
    $ 25.25
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    $ 180.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    PinWorlds
    $ 89.99
    Lighting - Led
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    From: $ 16.95
    $ 43.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    The MOD Couple
    From: $ 21.95
    Apparel - Unisex
    Pinball Wheezer
    From: $ 24.95
    Playfield - Other
    Hookedonpinball.com
    $ 55.95
    Boards
    Allteksystems
    $ 79.99
    Cabinet - Armor And Blades
    PinGraffix Pinside Shop
    $ 47.00
    $ 28.95
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 80.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    Back Alley Creations
    $ 78.00
    Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
    ModFather Pinball Mods

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside