(Topic ID: 184394)

System 11: replaced MPU capacitor, and caused PSU rectifier to blow?!

By goingincirclez

7 years ago


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    #1 7 years ago

    My Space Station has the bug where 75% of the time, at the first power on you'll either get no displays or a random error... but an immediate flick of the power switch boots the game normally and it plays 100% fine for however long you want, hours on end. The other 25% of the time it boots fine on the first attempt. It's done this for nearly a year.

    I finally stumbled on the solution to this problem in the Sys11 club thread: replace the 22uF/25V cap at C30. Ha! Too easy to ignore, so I did this.

    When I installed the repaired board and turned the game on, it failed to boot, I heard a coil pop then fuse F5 on the power supply blew. Using a 7A breaker in this location, it immediately trips when I try to start the game. During repeated cycle troubleshooting / while removing loads from the PSU, eventually F6 blew as well. Even with all loads disconnected from the PSU, F5 still blows.

    Confirming a suspicion, I consulted the tech guides and say this indeed means that the PSU bridge rectifier has shorted out. OK. I can test and replace that, but...

    ... is this just a wild freaking coincidence, or could something I might have botched (and for god's sake I'm afraid to ask what?) in replacing one stupid cap at MPU C30, have caused this? (In other words, if I fix the PSU and hook it back up... could it blow again?)

    #2 7 years ago

    Did you install it backwards?

    #3 7 years ago

    That was the first thing I thought but no, I did not. Checked and re-re-re-checked.

    But let's say I did: would that blow the BR on the PSU?

    #4 7 years ago
    Quoted from goingincirclez:

    That was the first thing I thought but no, I did not. Checked and re-re-re-checked.
    But let's say I did: would that blow the BR on the PSU?

    Can you post a picture of C30?

    #5 7 years ago

    Sounds like a coincidence.

    #6 7 years ago

    If it's not backwards. When soldering do you have a blob that fell somewhere that is shorting. Or perhaps a trace got connected with solider.

    One thing with old electronics. If something was weak. All other components get stressed. So it is slightly possible that replacing that cap with a new one caused another old/ stressed component to fail.

    Just a possibility. Hope you find it. Pull the board and post pics of the front and back.

    #7 7 years ago

    Well, I feel a little better that it's not something I did, since the MPU boots on the bench...

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    #8 7 years ago

    So here's something interesting. Even on the bench, it looks like it still doesn't always boot at the first power-on: the 5V and Diag LEDs stay solid with no blanking light. Flick the switch again, and I see normal bevahior (5V and Blanking LEDs on with Diag LED flashing). So it seems C30 was not the sole problem. Any further ideas?

    As for the PSU rectifier, I have a couple spares so hopefully I can try that tonight. Look like beefy traces to deal with and those are always a bear to desolder. Anyone have any tips to share? Is a 400V 30A rectifier too high (originals were 100V but I presume that like caps and diodes, a higher V rating is OK).

    #9 7 years ago
    Quoted from goingincirclez:

    So it seems C30 was not the sole problem. Any further ideas?

    When I am changing caps I do C-24, C-26, C-29 and C-30.

    Quoted from goingincirclez:with no blanking light.

    This doesn't always mean that the cpu isn't booting. What does the blanking signal measure? I have had bad TTL chips drag the voltage down to a level that would not light the blanking led but the game had booted and was in attract mode. When this happens SS solenoids and the flippers don't work, but everything else does.

    #10 7 years ago

    I would get the bridge replaced and put the board back in the game. Use the breaker as well. You may want to build a 5A or 6A breaker for future use... A 5A is one that I use every single week of my life.

    Alternatively, you could pull the power supply from your Pinbot to test in your Space Station with this MPU. That is, if you don't want to mess with the bridge right now.

    Then, perform a factory reset on the machine. That could possibly resolve your inconsistent booting problems. Report findings back here.

    #11 7 years ago

    You could also bullet proof the power supply by replacing the 3 big caps. And the 5v voltage regulator on the large heatsink.

    That would make sure your boards are getting the exact proper voltage. With no fluctuation or drop due to age.

    Screenshot_20170322-210159 (resized).pngScreenshot_20170322-210159 (resized).png

    #12 7 years ago

    Obvoius, but let's be sure that you snipped the leftover leads from C30.

    The PS 5VDC circuit often exhibits leaky caps. See the Sys11 PinWiki section on PSs

    Lastly, there are three IIRC discrete parts left of the 555 timer that can cause issues like you are seeing. A ceramic cap, resistor, and something else. Forgot. Too lazy to look.
    --
    Chris Hibler - CARGPB #31
    http://ChrisHiblerPinball.com/contact/
    http://www.PinWiki.com - The new place for pinball repair info

    #13 7 years ago

    Fuse breakers are awesome. I'd compiled a set in a Mouser order of 2, 2.5, 3, 4, 5, 7, 8, and 10A breakers, and they've paid for themselves since then.

    I didn't mention: I'd rebuilt the power supply a few months ago, as I have 3 others with no issues. Never had to touch a PSU rectifier yet.

    Apparently there's a first time for everything, so I replaced the rectifier tonight, put the PSU with the breakers in the game, connected the transformer leads, turned it on, and... nothing happened - meaning the breakers didn't trip (whew). Hooked up GI and that worked. Connected the MPU I worked on and... it booted. Played a test game through and all was well!

    So yeah: what a freaking coincidence!?!

    (I've had too many of these things in my life lately: day job, car repair, pin repair - seems everything I fix lately, something kinda-sorta-but-not-directly related immediately blows up. I don't know who I pissed off to throw my karma out of whack, but screw it: today I got stuff fixed at work, got the Aerobarge running again, and got this thing knocked out. I'm having a beer!)

    #14 7 years ago

    Sweet. Thanks for the update.

    #15 7 years ago

    Glad you got it fixed. Nobody likes goingincirclez

    #16 7 years ago

    For some reason I do it all the time...

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