(Topic ID: 207533)

System 11 problem. I haven't started to troubleshoot yet....


By tamoore

1 year ago



Topic Stats

  • 12 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by CadillacMusic
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

No games have been linked to this topic.

    #1 1 year ago

    And I can't get to the game until this weekend, I just thought it might be fun to tell you the symptoms, and you all try to tell me what's going on.

    Here are the specifics;

    System11, Whirlwind.
    Special coil (upper pop set, lower pop) pulls in randomly, for random duration when a game is started. Sometimes it just pulls in for a single pulse, other times its as long as 5 seconds. Eventually, it pulls in long enough to blow the associated fuse.

    What's your best guess as to what the problem will be? I'll answer any other questions you might have.

    #2 1 year ago

    So it doesn't pulse, it holds in solid?

    #3 1 year ago
    Quoted from CadillacMusic:

    So it doesn't pulse, it holds in solid?

    It's random. Sometimes it just pulses. Some times it pulls in for a second. Sometimes 5 seconds... the time span between when it pulls in is random too.

    #4 1 year ago

    Well my number one guess would be the pop bumper switch. After that, bad 7400 series chips on the mpu. But if it were a board problem, it would do it all throughout the game. So I'm thinking switch is too close, and the shaking of the ball being "vended" is causing the switch to be made.

    #5 1 year ago
    Quoted from CadillacMusic:

    Well my number one guess would be the pop bumper switch. After that, bad 7400 series chips on the mpu. But if it were a board problem, it would do it all throughout the game. So I'm thinking switch is too close, and the shaking of the ball being "vended" is causing the switch to be made.

    I thought a special solenoid switch, when closed, will only activate the solenoid once until it is recycled.....i.e. the switch won't made it pull in for more than a single pulse at a time.

    #6 1 year ago

    I had a leaf switch on my Space Station that was to close. It would sometimes randomly fire the left jet bumper and sometimes hold it and blow a fuse. I adjusted and cleaned leaf switch and have never had a problem since.

    #7 1 year ago

    Oh and replaced fuse!

    #8 1 year ago

    The special solenoids in whirlwind are not switch controlled (J18 is empty). They are CPU controlled. There are only 6 special solenoids, (the top jet bumpers, the kickers, and the ramp down coil) So the switches should not be an issue. If both sets of jet bumpers are pulling in, the issue may be a deeper logic issue.

    If it is indeed just the special solenoids that are activating, and they are all activating at once, my prime suspect would be SR20. All the +5 volts that hold U49 and U50 inputs high go through that series resistor. If that +5 voltage is not present, or weak, as soon as your flipper coil energizes, all the special solenoids will to.

    #9 1 year ago
    Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

    The special solenoids in whirlwind are not switch controlled (J18 is empty). They are CPU controlled. There are only 6 special solenoids, (the top jet bumpers, the kickers, and the ramp down coil) So the switches should not be an issue. If both sets of jet bumpers are pulling in, the issue may be a deeper logic issue.
    If it is indeed just the special solenoids that are activating, and they are all activating at once, my prime suspect would be SR20. All the +5 volts that hold U49 and U50 inputs high go through that series resistor. If that +5 voltage is not present, or weak, as soon as your flipper coil energizes, all the special solenoids will to.

    Thanks. It's just the single pop bumper that is pulling in. The lower pop bumper in the upper set of pop bumpers. Activating the flipper coil doesn't impact any other solenoids.

    #10 1 year ago

    Lucky for you, I just went through a repair on the special solenoid section of my own Whirlwind machine.

    Ok, the upper middle jet bumper is special solenoid #5. The circuits operates around U50 (the NOR gate) For the output to go high (and trigger the coil) both inputs have to be low. So the inputs are pin 2 and 3 of U50. Pin 3 is controlled by the same circuit as the flipper coil. If the flipper coils is engaged, then that input should be low. The other input is controlled by the CPU. The signal originates at U54, and then passes through U45 (a 7407 buffer). From there it goes to pin 2 of the NOR gate at U50 (A 7202).

    I learned recently that if any components between the +5v source and the NOR input at pin 2 of U50 are bad, it will cause the signal at the gate to read low, thus triggering the coil. Luckily, there are only SR20, C75, AND ZR8 along the +5v input. With the machine in test mode, the flipper coil should engage, and drop Pin 3 low. You should then measure the voltage at the input of the NOR gate at U50 pin 2. You should get a solid 5 volts. If you are reading something less than that, you know there is an issue with one of the three components along the +5v line.

    If the 5v line is ok, I would then check to see if U50 itself is at fault, and then work backwards to U45, and finally U54.

    I hope this helps..

    #11 1 year ago

    Thanks to everyone who posted a possible answer.

    Before I replaced the fuse, I checked the switch by hand, and seemed to be adjusted find. I could actually hear the points contact when I moved the spoon.

    I put a new fuse in, and fired up the game. It's working fine. So, this is fixed, and I can only imagine that maybe the switch was stuck, and working it just lightly by hand freed it up.

    So, thanks. I'm glad it wasn't more than that....

    #12 1 year ago

    ...did I call it, or did I call it. *smug*

    Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
    $ 7,599.00
    Pinball Machine
    Operation Pinball
    From: $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 18.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 44.99
    Lighting - Interactive
    Lee's Parts
    From: $ 9.99
    $ 329.00
    Displays
    Boston Pinball Company
    $ 5.00
    Playfield - Decals
    Doc's Pinball Shop
    $ 25.50
    $ 29.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 24.99
    Lighting - Led
    Lee's Parts
    $ 48.00
    Cabinet - Other
    ModFather Pinball Mods
    $ 10.00
    From: $ 220.00
    Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
    CzTV Mods
    From: $ 19.95
    Apparel - Unisex
    Pinball Wheezer
    $ 12.99
    $ 5,799.00
    Pinball Machine
    Operation Pinball
    $ 9,000.00
    From: $ 99.99
    Cabinet - Other
    Lighted Pinball Mods
    $ 19.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 9.99
    Eproms
    Matt's Basement Arcade
    $ 125.00
    Cabinet - Toppers
    Sparky Pinball
    $ 7,499.00
    Pinball Machine
    Operation Pinball
    $ 10.00
    $ 36.99

    Hey there! Got a moment?

    Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside