(Topic ID: 173132)

System 11 Power issues

By futurepinhead

7 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

You

Linked Games

#1 7 years ago

System 11 Big Guns will play indefinitely, but as soon as you leave it on idling, the game loses power after about an hour and the only thing left on is the GI. When its like this and you press the start button, it will start a game but no coils or insert lights. When it did it last night, I wiggled the connections to see if it was something there but that did not fix it. I came back after awhile and as I was walking up to it and still 5 feet away, I heard a click from the backbox, which I assume was a relay, and it came back to life.

#2 7 years ago

It's a loose connection or socket. While the game is on and in "game mode", wiggle every single connection and gently press on every single socketed chip in the game. Don't forget about the coin door harness and the harnesses in the bottom of the cabinet! Most likely you are dealing with a connector in the head to or from the power supply. However, this could also be something like a socket on the MPU, although that is less likely.

As heat in the backbox builds up, it could be causing a contraction or expansion of a "barely making contact" socket or similar problem.

#3 7 years ago

Here's the part that confuses me. If I'm playing it, it's fine. It only messes up when I walk away from it. I played it for 3 hours straight 2 nights ago and then left it alone and it went dead after an hour. If I turn it on and leave it alone immediately with no games then it dies after about an hour. So I don't think it's necessarily a heat issue with that kind of symptoms. I don't know.

#4 7 years ago

Given THAT additional information, I would actually lean towards an EPROM being bad. I had a VERY similar problem with my TFTC that pointed to an EPROM crapping out but ONLY in attract mode. Drove me bonkers for 6 months.

#5 7 years ago

I did just discover while reading up on Diagnosing System 11

System 11a, 11b, 11c Diagnostic Flashes.
These games do not have a 7 segment display. Instead there is a LED which indicates the memory chip test being preformed. To start the memory chip test, turn the game on or press the bottom CPU diagnostic switch button SW2 on the left side of the CPU board. Quickly count the CPU board LED flashes of the middle (diagnostic) LED, and compare them to the follow chart.

1 U25 RAM Failure U25 RAM could not be used. No other tests are performed; the game is locked here until the problem is fixed.
2 Memory Protect Failure This message means: (A) the coin door may be shut; (B) the Memory Protect switch may be stuck in the ON position; (C) the Memory Protect logic is protecting the audit memory; (D) a U25 RAM failure is occurring. Note this test assumes the coin door is OPEN since this test is initiated ONLY by pressing the CPU diagnostic switch (SW2).
3 U51 PIA Failure 6821 PIA at U51 has failed. *
4 U38 PIA Failure 6821 PIA at U38 has failed. *
5 U41 PIA Failure 6821 PIA at U41 has failed. *
6 U42 PIA Failure 6821 PIA at U42 has failed. *
7 U54 PIA Failure 6821 PIA at U54 has failed. *
8 U10 PIA Failure 6821 PIA at U10 has failed. *
9 IRQ Failure IRQ has malfunctioned. It may be missing or too slow or too fast.
10 U27 ROM Failure The ROM (or EPROM) at U27 did not pass its internal checksum. This could be a ROM failure, or its associated components and connections may be causing this problem. U26 ROM test is skipped.
11 U26 ROM Failure The ROM (or EPROM) at U26 did not pass its internal checksum.
* Alternatively, the PIA's associated connections or components are causing the PIA to appear bad.

#6 7 years ago

I let the game idle until it died again and I noticed something. When the game goes down, the Blanking light also goes away. From what I read, the Blanking light should always be on, but that's all I know.

#7 7 years ago

I think this is it! Just read up on the Blanking signal and everything lines up. Is it possible my game Blanking signal times out, but can't come out of Blanking status?

#8 7 years ago

It doesn't really work that way. More like the opposite is the case. The blanking single in your case is reset by the 555 timer on the MPU and "sets all things to off (or blank) in the machine". This is necessary. Without it, the game could turn on with any number of random, locked on coils, lamps, flashers, ect. If the MPU has some other issue, the blanking signal will not work properly. The blanking signal itself really on "resets things to clear". It specifically does not control if the game boots properly or crashes randomly. In other words, blanking signal issues, more than likely, will point to some other MPU failure(s), if not trace repair, bad sockets, bad 555 timer, ect...

If you were having a blanking signal issue, the game would likely show other strange behavior upon first applying power (random things firing and locked on display segments). Especially when reapplying power just after it crashes!

Did you try to burn new game ROMS like I suggested?
Also, do you have a full 5VDC AT THE MPU's POWER CONNECTOR/test points?

From: http://pinball.flippers.info/system6repairpart5.asp
Blanking Signal

-Probably the most misunderstood part of the MPU/Driver board circuitry is the blanking signal. The blanking signal's purpose in life is to turn off or "blank" the lamp, solenoid and display circuits, preventing serious damage to these components in case of a MPU board failure or program lockup.

-If the signal is low (absent), then the game's lamps, displays and solenoids can't be turned on. In a perfect world, the signal can only be turned on by a running game program on an operational MPU.

-The blanking signal is set low by a timer circuit. When the game program is running, a signal from the PIA on the MPU board sets the blanking signal high. This PIA signal is sent at a faster rate then the timer is running (resetting the timer), so the blanking will stay high as long as the game is running. If the game program locks up or doesn't start, the timer will expire and set the signal low, turning off the lamps, solenoids and displays.

-Various posts on the pinball newsgroup, rec.games.pinball, over the years have elevated the status of this circuit to be one of the prime reasons for game failure. Quite the contrary, a missing blanking signal is a symptom of a larger problem (usually a MPU failure). If the blanking circuit is dead, nothing will seem to work.
------------------

The fact that your game turns on, boots properly, and plays properly every time, means that the blanking circuit, in all likelihood, is working just as it should.

#9 7 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

Did you try to burn new game ROMS like I suggested?
Also, do you have a full 5VDC AT THE MPU's POWER CONNECTOR/test points?

No I have a friend with a burner for arcade games, I'll see if he is equipped for pinball as well. Yes, I am getting 5v at the mpu board.

I tested this morning, when I go up to the game when it is idling, and I credit it and start a game, I can hear that it has booted a game, but no coils fire, no controlled lamps, and no display.

#10 7 years ago

Yeah, the MPU is crashing. Your gaol is to find out why.

You say "when it is idling". What does that mean? Did you mean "when it WAS left in attract mode and then it has crashed"?

#11 7 years ago

Yes, when I walk away from it while it is on and in attract mode and leave it alone, that's what I'm calling Idling

#12 7 years ago

It wouldn't hurt to perform a "Factory Reset" and test to see if the game still crashes.

Also, test your battery pack to see if it's pushing out the proper voltage on the MPU. This would not apply if you have NVRAM.

I once had a battery holder only providing 1.25 volts to an EATPM MPU and it would randomly crash.

If that doesn't help, put the game in test mode (go to the all lamps test) and leave it sit for a few hours to see if it crashes. This could help determine if the crash is program related.

#13 7 years ago

I'll be honest, I didn't know you could do a factory reset on this style. Do you mean just reburn all the roms?

#14 7 years ago

No, at the end of the aud/settings there is a "restore fact defaults" option.

#15 7 years ago

Ah, I'm thinking like a manual push buttons on the board. I'm such an idiot sometimes.

Good news, my buddy does have a rom burner that will working with this type of chip. So I am going to be taking them over there.

I will try the factory reset tonight though.

#16 7 years ago

Factory reset did not help.
I double checked all the test points and they are all fine. The Blanking test point I get 5v dc when it is still running, but after it dies I get 0v

#17 7 years ago

Does it crash in test mode?

What voltage do the batteries read at the MPU?

#18 7 years ago

I can test both of those tonight. I'm going to be looking for a spare board so I can try and track down any differences in readings.

2 weeks later
#19 7 years ago

I finally sent this off to be repaired, it was getting past my diagnostic abilities. I used ChrisHibler and he has been great to deal with. What I'm seeing on the invoice as what fixed it is he replaced C30, C57, C58, Q50 in reset section.

Promoted items from Pinside Marketplace and Pinside Shops!
$ 18.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
$ 36.95
Eproms
Pinballrom
 
From: $ 33.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Rocket City Pinball
 
1,800 (Firm)
Machine - For Sale
Newburgh, NY
$ 170.00
Displays
Digipinball Shop
 
$ 22.50
$ 15.00
Playfield - Plastics
UpKick Pinball
 
2,600
Machine - For Sale
Davenport, FL
$ 2.50
Lighting - Led
Pinballrom
 
$ 115.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
 
From: $ 19.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
 
$ 27.00
Electronics
Yorktown Arcade Supply
 
3,500
Machine - For Sale
Scranton, PA

Reply

Wanna join the discussion? Please sign in to reply to this topic.

Hey there! Welcome to Pinside!

Donate to Pinside

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run without any 3rd-party banners or ads, thanks to the support from our visitors? Please consider a donation to Pinside and get anext to your username to show for it! Or better yet, subscribe to Pinside+!


This page was printed from https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-11-power-issues and we tried optimising it for printing. Some page elements may have been deliberately hidden.

Scan the QR code on the left to jump to the URL this document was printed from.