(Topic ID: 304925)

System 11 MPU issue

By Pintopia

2 years ago


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Topic Stats

  • 17 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by Pintopia
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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#1 2 years ago

Looking for some advice I have recently acquired a non working High Speed. The MPU 7 segment was blank. I pulled the MPU and bench tested using Leon test rom. I found a blocking cap that was physically broke in front of the 6802 and replaced it. All PIA’s tested fine. However it now displays an 8. I thought not having batteries might be an issue so I installed them and the board booted or displayed a 0 which I believe means it booted without error.

I reinstalled the board fired it up and I’m back to the 8. I then removed the connectors one at time to isolate a possible issue but nothing still have an 8 displayed with only the power J17 plugged in.

Anyone one know what an 8 might indicate?

Don

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#2 2 years ago

Check the PinWiki System 11 section:

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#System_11

Code 8 seems to mean: "General system failure. Check the 5VDC power supply as well as the integrity of game ROM 2 at U26."

Alternatively: An eight displayed during memory chip test (using the CPU board switch SW2) indicates that the blanking circuit is functioning properly.

If you remove the board from the game, does it go back to zero? When you booted it to a zero code, was that with the game power supply, or an external (ATX?) power supply?

#3 2 years ago

I’ve been using that exact section of Pinwiki I have already verified the 5vdc being present. I get the 8 code with Leon’s chip on the bench as well as the game roms installed. I also swapped out the 6808 with no change.

The only time I got the 0 code is installed in the game ( I verified all voltages on the power supply board), after I installed the batteries with only J17 connected. I turned the game off and connected all connectors and the 8 is back even when I have just J17 connected for power.

#4 2 years ago
Quoted from Pintopia:

I’ve been using that exact section of Pinwiki I have already verified the 5vdc being present. I get the 8 code with Leon’s chip on the bench as well as the game roms installed. I also swapped out the 6808 with no change.
The only time I got the 0 code is installed in the game ( I verified all voltages on the power supply board), after I installed the batteries with only J17 connected. I turned the game off and connected all connectors and the 8 is back even when I have just J17 connected for power.

Okay, so if you have the board installed, with only J17 connected, you get an 8. If you pull the batteries, you get a 0?

I wanna say I fixed a High Speed with a similar problem, and I had to swap the RAM chip at U25.

Scroll down the Wiki page a little further to the section that starts with "An U25 RAM failure". You may want to check some components first.

I'm also assuming your coin door is open when you're running these tests? Otherwise the Memory Protect switch will cause problems.

#5 2 years ago

Check you memory and your rom sockets. I have also have a defective display that always showed 8 but was fully booting and playing fine.

#6 2 years ago

The difference between "0" and "8" is the MSB of the 4-bit input to the 7447. The MSB in REV- boards is tied to ground. The MSB in REV-B boards is connected to the BLANKING signal through W16. Your board is a REV-B with W16 installed and therefore the MSB is connected to the BLANKING signal.

01_board.jpg01_board.jpg
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Check the ~BLANKING signal. There is a test point just above U20-2 that is connected to U20-2. It should be LOW when you see "8" and HIGH if/when you see "0".

Alternatively you can test 1J21-2 or 1J22-2. If you test at this point then it should be HIGH when you see "8" and LOW if/when you see "0".

If the signal matches the state then you likely have an issue with the blanking circuit. The Leon does not test the blanking functionality. The blanking circuitry keys to the constant strobing of the display (tied to bit 2 of the strobe input). If the processor is executing correctly and the software is correct then the software needs to continually strobe the display and will cycle through all 16 strobes (4 bits).

#7 2 years ago

Thanks for the insight I’ve been posting responses to the wrong thread lol… can someone confirm the proper sized ROM for the game rims. It had 256 in u26 and u27 so I assumed that’s what they were and burned new ones however in the thread I was mid posting in someone pointed out that HS is 64.
This could be my issue…

#8 2 years ago

If you are using a 27128 then double the actual 2764 image. Since W2 is installed on your board you will need duplicate the image as the A13 address is active. If you remove W2 and install W3 then you can place the 2764 image in the "upper" half of the available storage as the A13 address line is tied to VCC with W3 installed.

If you are using a 27256 then quadruple the actual 2764 image - double the double. If you remove W2 and install W3 then you can place the 2764 image in the 4/4 "slot" of the available storage. The 27256 has $8000 bytes of storage. The 2764 image is $2000 bytes. Place the image at offset $6000 in the available $8000 bytes of storage. You will need to do this as A13 (pin 26) and A14 (pin 27) are tied to VCC with W3 installed.

#9 2 years ago

Thank you for the the detailed description I do appreciate it! brings me back to my computer architecture class in college I’ll put the 64 as designed back in and give it a whirl… as a side where in the manual does it state the size of the ROM I searched several times an just couldn’t find it…

#10 2 years ago
Quoted from Pintopia:

Thank you for the the detailed description I do appreciate it! brings me back to my computer architecture class in college I’ll put the 64 as designed back in and give it a whirl… as a side where in the manual does it state the size of the ROM I searched several times an just couldn’t find it…

It might not be in the manual, as sometimes later software revisions could require a larger EPROM chip. You can typically guess the proper EPROM chip based on the size of the binary image. The 32K image is a 27256, a 16K image is a 27128 and an 8K image is a 2764. At the time, a 2764 was likely notably cheaper than a 27256. These days if you can make a 27256 work (be sure to quadruple the image), it might be easier to just stock the one size of chip.

#11 2 years ago

Ok I burned two 2764 chips U26 U27. Installed an now get nothing the segment display is dead. I went back over the jumpers and the board this is what I have:
Board 5764-10881-00 RevB
Jumpers
W1 installed
W2 installed
W3 NC
W4 installed
W5 installed
W6 NC
W7 installed
W8 installed
W9 NC
W10 NC
W11 installed
W12 can’t locate
W13 can’t locate
W14 installed
W15 NC
W16 installed
This board is driving me crazy also to note I burned my Leon test ROM on a 27C512 per the instructions an it worked pulsing all the appropriate PIA outputs

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#12 2 years ago

For High Speed:

  • U27 should be 27256
  • U26 should be 2764 but can be 27128 (double) or 27256 (quadruple)
#13 2 years ago

Great that's what i suspected Ill give it a go....

#14 2 years ago

Success on the bench! U27 256k U26 64K

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#15 2 years ago

Now to try it in the game

#16 2 years ago

Boots on game power! Next….

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#17 2 years ago

Success!!!!! Game is up and running no sound but running!!!

DumbAss thank you!

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