(Topic ID: 155268)

System 11 (F14) Switch Matrix Question


By kilmarnock1350

3 years ago



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  • 12 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by wayout440
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f14sw_(resized).JPG
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#1 3 years ago

Found my phantom tilt problem - fixed.

However, I noticed that when I close the Plumb bob switch (1), I get all 8 1st row switch closures on the switch edge test. ie. the plumb bob gives me 1, 9, 17,25, 33, 41, 49, 57.

Exact same problem with Ball Roll Tilt (2), this gives me all 8 row 2 switch closures as well.

The first COLUMN switch, gives me an entire row of switch closures, all the way down.

Normal? The game is operating normal (I think).

#2 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Normal? The game is operating normal (I think).

No, not normal. Each switch should close that switch and no others. Seems to match this symptom in the repair guides:

Switch column shorted to ground.
When a column wire is shorted to ground, and any switch in that column is closed, the switch test will show ALL switches in the ROW of the closed switch as being closed. If no switches are closed, the switch test will show no switches closed. To find the location of the short, go to the end of the switch column wire on the playfield (the switches are "daisy chained" together for an entire column or row). Then break the daisy chain one switch at a time until the short no longer shows in the switch test.

#3 3 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

No, not normal. Each switch should close that switch and no others. Seems to match this symptom in the repair guides:

Wayout, always appreciate your tech help.

The weird thing is on my machine... EVERY SINGLE ROW, does this in switch test mode. It's hard for me to believe that I have a ground issue with EVERY row, that is independent. I'm thinking more a general switch matrix ground issue.

I've been reading a lot, seems there are significant resistor issues seemingly more problematic in F14, that cause switch matrix issues. SRC resisters?

I will work on it in a couple weeks. It is currently operating correctly, and I have a party coming up. (if it ain't broke bad, don't make it worse)

Thanks for any additional thoughts on this.

#4 3 years ago

Sounds like U40 is bad.
All the drives come together in this chip.
It's either that or both U30 and U39 are bad.

#5 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Wayout, always appreciate your tech help.
The weird thing is on my machine... EVERY SINGLE ROW, does this in switch test mode. It's hard for me to believe that I have a ground issue with EVERY row, that is independent. I'm thinking more a general switch matrix ground issue.
I've been reading a lot, seems there are significant resistor issues seemingly more problematic in F14, that cause switch matrix issues. SRC resisters?
I will work on it in a couple weeks. It is currently operating correctly, and I have a party coming up. (if it ain't broke bad, don't make it worse)
Thanks for any additional thoughts on this.

Follow the instructions in the repair docs to check the MPU board first. This will definitely determine if you have an MPU problem, or a playfield problem.

#6 3 years ago
Quoted from wayout440:

Follow the instructions in the repair docs to check the MPU board first. This will definitely determine if you have an MPU problem, or a playfield problem.

When I did the test, I got ZERO switch closures during any test in which the switch matrix (J8 and J10) were unplugged, which according to the repair docs, tells me it's a playfield fault.

But, there was no circumstance listed that matched my issue of each row having the same problem. So I'm kinda stuck.

#7 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

But, there was no circumstance listed that matched my issue of each row having the same problem. So I'm kinda stuck.

According to what you said earlier:

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

when I close the Plumb bob switch (1), I get all 8 1st row switch closures on the switch edge test. ie. the plumb bob gives me 1, 9, 17,25, 33, 41, 49, 57.

Looks like a column short

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

EVERY SINGLE ROW, does this in switch test mode. .

Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Exact same problem with Ball Roll Tilt (2), this gives me all 8 row 2 switch closures as well.

When a column wire is shorted to ground, and any switch in that column is closed, the switch test will show ALL switches in the ROW of the closed switch as being closed.

f14b_(resized).JPG

f14sw_(resized).JPG

#8 3 years ago

Wayout. I appreciate your help, I think I understand that I should be looking for a short between the grn/brn wire and ground (column 1 common wire).

I will look at it this weekend.

You are the kind of person that makes this hobby fun (and tolerable).

#9 3 years ago

Put it in test, unplug the pf connectors, the use a jumper wire and complete the switch rows one at a time to see if it's in the board. If you wire close one switch and 8 close, then the chips bad.

#10 3 years ago
Quoted from FUNWIZ:

Put it in test, unplug the pf connectors, the use a jumper wire and complete the switch rows one at a time to see if it's in the board. If you wire close one switch and 8 close, then the chips bad.

I don't understand what/where I'm using the jumper wire.

I assume you mean to unplug the 2 plugs on the board. J8 and 10 I believe.

Thanks

#12 3 years ago
Quoted from kilmarnock1350:

Wayout. I appreciate your help, I think I understand that I should be looking for a short between the grn/brn wire and ground (column 1 common wire).
I will look at it this weekend.
You are the kind of person that makes this hobby fun (and tolerable).

Thanks for the kind words, I enjoy helping. It's a good idea to do the junpering test like suggested, so to help narrow down where to look

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