Have:
HS
SOF

Had:
DINER
EATPM
F14 TOMCAT X2
JOKERZ!

Shouldn't system 9's count? The only major difference from system 11's is the sound section of the game.

Did you replace the pre driver for that lamp row/column as well?

Oh, and I just picked up my third F-14 Tomcat. Such a great game.

That's where I would start then.

Updates...

Have:
TAXI
HS
SOF

Had:
HS X3
EATPM X2
F14 TOMCAT X2
DINER
JOKERZ!
Pinbot

Also, I want to mention that I have shopped out every single system 11 machine except for Radical!, Bonsai Run, BBBB, and Transporter.

I do agree for the most part. I have owned a LOT of system 11 games. I think that once you address the 20 year old worn out junk and follow a good rebuild (like vid's guide suggests), they were the first time in pinball history where the electrical engineers behind the games really "got it right". They can run for YEARS without any issues.

If you bulletproof a system 11, it's hard to kill them. Even more recently, the "special solenoid saver" board were kind off the last aspect of the system 11 machines that could still "get you", having one set up for constant play.

Taxi is a much better designed pin but personal preferences could differ greatly.

I agree. The one I'm repairing now has been a real ball buster though. Problem after problem after problem. Hopefully I'm nearing the end of working out all the bugs...

Why the hell did ops put lock-tite on stuff back in the day? Fools!

I'm certain it has a system 11 sound board though. May be why people think it's a system 11.

Some people just don’t know anything and prefer to keep things that way. :-p

Updates:

Have:
HS
SOF
Mousin' Around
Space Shuttle X2

Had:
TAXI
HS X3
EATPM X2
F14 TOMCAT X2
DINER
JOKERZ!
Pinbot
Sorcerer X2
Comet

Diner is DEFINITELY a better designed machine. I’ve had both… Which one would I rather own? Very hard decision on those two. I’d probably never be able to answer and would just buy something else. If I had to choose only one for free, suppose I’d pick Diner and install the nerfed jackpot roms.

FYI, you can order a set of “no-hop” flipper return rails for Diner from Cliffy Pinball https://www.passionforpinball.com/FlipFrames.htm. That will solve your hop problems if standard adjustments don’t. You can just shoot him an email and he will send you an invoice. Takes a couple week to usually fill since he mostly makes the parts as you order them. It’s the best product he makes IMHO.

Ok, now I see what he described is not hop. It sounds like the flipper arm is rebounding off the rubber grommet. I would remove the grommet as a test to see if that is causing the bounce. If it is, you can slightly bend the metal outward or, shave the grommet a little with a dremel and reinstall it. I had to do this on a Tommy I recently rebuilt. I suppose your return springs could be too tight as well.

Strange, your ball hop on your two machines must be caused by something else. Maybe there is a large air gap? My league and local pinball community swears by the no-hop frames.

The Road Kings is way wrong. All I can tell you is that's not how it's supposed to be aligned. Not certain why it's like that though. Maybe it was drilled like that from the factory.

Also, those look like the standard replacement ones, not the “enhanced” ones shown here…
2D91A0AD-8F9F-4DD6-87A4-A947AD6225DA (resized).jpeg

What I would do is look at that coil and confirm that the banded side of the diode is on the side of the YELLOW/PURPLE wires. You can't guarantee the wires are correct unless you actually look at the diode!

That's great. As confirmation, when a coil with only TWO LUGS (single winding) does not require a diode, it does not matter what side the wires connect to... because a coil with one winding is just a very long single insulated wire wrapped around a plastic bobbin.

Update… I’ve had 20 over the years.

Current:
HS
Grand Lizard
Mousin' Around
Space Shuttle

Had:
TAXI
HS X3
EATPM X2
F14 TOMCAT X2
DINER
JOKERZ!
Pinbot
Swords of Fury
Sorcerer X2
Comet
Space Shuttle

I really do like Grand Lizard a lot. It is just so balanced and a perfect classic, multiplayer game in so many ways. It's hands down the BEST pinball ever created with a manga save feature .

Space Shuttle is so simple but universally appealing to both casual and serious players. I also like learning about astronomy as a hobby.

Mousin Around is just the perfect Sys 11 tournament game. Individual jackpot building feature for each player (that MATTERS)... way ahead of it's time.

I know purists may not like grouping sys 9 and 11 together but the main differences between those 2 systems are so minor (sound differences, alpha-numerics, and transistors drives that I contest they belong together.

I mean if you look at ANY later system 11C and compare it to ANY 11(nothing) game like Road Kings... there are SO MANY differences that every single board is completely different from one game to the other game.

So, any system 9 game's boards/hardware is way more similar to an early sys11 than Road Kings is similar to say a Diner or Rollergames.

It's not JUST the rules or depth. There are so many other reasons most all new games are no longer appealing to own. I'm glad someone else sees it too. New games are basically all empty hearted shells of the former glory days/years of great pinball. 1980-82 and 1991-93. Show me a new game like the ones from those years that actually has a soul... TNA came close but still falls short for me on a couple sweet spots/reasons for owning. For me, the closest game to date that just MIGHT have a soul... is Maiden. Most everything else is unispired, overpriced, rushed, money grabbing, horseshit. We have officially moved into the "post covid scare" era of pinball where ANYTHING can sell to an unsuspecting fool for 10 grand or more. If it has a silver ball in it and an HD LCD screen, people want it and will pay whatever for it. Good game play or "code"? Ha, that doesn't even matter any more. Theme is WAY more important than gameplay or code because it gets the kids and wife to participate. Designers didn't care about those things in 80-82,91-93. Slap a theme on it and mail in the design. Oh well, more great games for me to buy from people that are dumping stuff to buy the new Stern Bond.

Remove apron. Play through a game and Confirm the balls are seating and ejecting properly. Even if they are, go to switch test and confirm every single switch in the outhole and trough are working properly.

Did you check for voltage at the opto boards?

Switch test should help you figure out the other switch problems but they could both be related... Print out the page in the manual for the switch matrix [on IPDB.org] and test ALL SWITCHES. Mark the ones that don't work and post a picture of it here. We can advise your next steps based on those results.

Of course not, they both have made very good games that have stood the test of time.

It's the Rottendog MPU. Why does it matter? You could install an original board in it and throw the Rottendog one in the trash but, this seems like a non issue to me if there are no other problems.

There is a path to ground where there shouldn’t be… bad socket? Defective bulb? Bad diode?

You said you replaced the resistors? What exactly did you replace again? There are no resistors on the feature lamps under the PF. Also, can you use a meter? Knowing and using one can help you find the problem.

One other thing you can do, momentarily move the grounding wire (red wires for those lamps) to another socket nearby and see if it always stays on too. That would help eliminate the socket or diode as being the problem, even if you don’t know how to test using a meter (or don’t have one).

That’s good. That means you either have a bad diode or a bad socket @ 5K lamp

I would remove the plate and investigate the other side too. Remove the bulb and try another? Remove bulb and use continuity on meter to determine if one of the tabs is touching where it should not? LOOK INSIDE the socket and confirm there is not some random piece of metal crud in the bottom? Is the diode installed the correct way? Is there a rouge splash of solder somewhere? Looks like you are using incandescent... they do short out and go bad.

I'm guessing one of those fiber insulator things partially broke. If true you could perhaps improvise your own [plastic?] insulator and superglue it in place. It is going to be VERY frustrating to try and press another socket into that plate... would likely need to de-solder and remove the entire thing, get it on a bench, find new parts to press (or sledgehammer) the socket, ect.

If the socket on the plate is in fact compromised, before going toward the "fix it like it was route", you could just grab a standard size spare under playfield socket and install it on the side with the bulb bent at a 45-90 degree angle and move/extend the wires to illuminate the 5K insert. That would be a last resort though and you may even have to cut away part of that metal plate to get it to fit.

If you could post some better pictures of the actual 5K lamp socket, that may help.

sandpaper+wirebrush that DARK area... then more sandpaper and more wirebrush @ resistors. You will get it!
Pinside_forum_7411257_3253019 (resized).jpg

I had one for 13 years.. If you want to shorten ball times on SOF, you just have to install lighting flippers, remove center post, and remove the upper PF post to widen the gap up there a LOT. Makes the game a lot more fun. 3 million on mine was a lot. Before I made those changes, I rolled it twice, two separate times. I personally think it’s a good game with great artwork and amazing sound. Gameplay is not as good as the art and sound. If it was, I would still have one.

For the love of crap, please take all of those blue LEDs out of the backbox.

The truth? It’s actually the sequel to High Speed and the theme was forced upon the design team. If you like High Speed or Getaway, you will probably like Rollergames.

Fish Tales, Theater of Magic and Tales of the Arabian Nights are all in this so called “Top 100 list”.

That’s the only fact I need to immediately consider it nonsense. All 3 of those games are absolute pieces of fucking shit.

Your strongly held pinball opinions don’t really mean much. Don’t take them too seriously.

You do not need anything additional to put LEDs in a Williams or DE game.

One of the worst? I don't know about that Francis.

See that’s your problem right there. You are looking at an internet site for ratings and using that alone to define the best and the worst of a thing. That’s just asinine.

Actually, it’s a pretty good game. Once you are around the pinball for years, you should find very little reason to look at a “best of” pinball list. I have much respect for a collector that owns some good popular games along with some machines that I’ve barely ever played or seen, that still hold their own and are a blast to play.

Pool Sharks is pretty damn good and still affordable. Maverick and World Poker Tour are both very good games. The problem with hidden gems is, these days, even those are much less hidden and much more expensive. Hotdoggin' is good. Hard Body is good. DE Time Machine is good. Super Orbit and Dr. Dude are good. Gottlieb's Bad Girls and Monte Carlo are both excellent.

I don't understand why you need a picture. The correct wires are right there... just buy female+male 4 pin molex connectors and female+male 7 pin connectors and pin each wire one at a time. Or, save some money and just buy the 20 pin ones and cut your own with a dremel to whatever size you need.

Your first mistake is attempting to use IDC connectors. Pinball industry used them because they were fast to assemble and cheap, NOT because they were reliable. Absolute pieces of shit.

When two wires are present, jam both wires into each Trifurcon pin, crimp it, and just use a molex type connector https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/CF15612

They will. You can even get three into one pin if you trim a few strands off of each wire.

I have occasionally used solder after but not before.

I think Grand Lizard is more fun to play than Whirlwind!... and I can tell you for certain Wirlwind! is the best system 11 game ever made. That is about all that you really need to know. I had a Jokerz for about 3 years and I would NOT own another one. Space Station is a great designed game... but I doubt that I would ever buy one unless it was a killer deal.

I felt like simply ranking them doesn't really give these games much justice. Hence the explanations...

Your post is a bit confusing. There is very little that the "Interconnect board" actually does and there is very little that can fail on that board besides connection points.

You are MUCH better off repairing it rather than sourcing a new one. I should also add that they are not interchangeable unless you also match the resistors on that board. They are unique for ea. sys 11 game.

So even if you do find one, you will need to swap over all the large resistors.

Don't call it a AUX pcb. That will confuse people because there is an AUX power supply/driver board for sys 11 games. It's called the "Interconnect PCB".

Besides, you are MUCH more likely dealing with IDC connector problems where the switches enter/leave that board rather than the actual board being the problem. I can probably stop over and help you after Pincinnati show if you need additional help with your game.