(Topic ID: 43458)

System 11 Club !


By mof

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 3,218 posts
  • 645 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 days ago by JT-Pinball
  • Topic is favorited by 297 Pinsiders

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 658 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

PXL_20201011_183148753 (resized).jpg
PXL_20201010_222033945 (resized).jpg
60706BB0-CB09-4A95-84D0-9C12687ABCCE (resized).png
20200925_154114 (resized).jpg
20200925_154106 (resized).jpg
8F7846B9-B035-4146-8074-03D0CB09BFA4 (resized).jpeg
20200919_173858 (resized).jpg
11656A6F-A5DD-441C-8BC6-5825D0793B3D (resized).png
4C2EFFCC-B4C7-4F74-8ACE-7FC04368E123 (resized).jpeg
5887EE9D-7BB1-4FAA-9376-B98DE095AC0E (resized).jpeg
15975884904948110992076400873220 (resized).jpg
15975884517245635500925961117344 (resized).jpg
15975884133763581895633115573927 (resized).jpg
15975883534438392459666533707311 (resized).jpg
IMG_0547 (resized).JPG
1B28155E-5B12-4655-A1D9-788D7F1A24F7 (resized).jpeg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider grumpy.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#992 5 years ago
Quoted from BCpinhead:

I should mention that in testing one wire at a time to ground on AC I got:
yellow = 4.75v approx

AC circuits like this measures yellow to yellow/white=5.9volts AC. There is a second circuit with the same colors yellow to yellow/white = 5.9 volts AC. If you what to know which yellow goes with which yellow/white then unplug the game from the outlet and unplug the GI connector and measure ohms until you find the pairs.

8 months later
#1339 5 years ago
Quoted from boris_37:

1) When the 0.25 amp fuse blows does it damage any other parts such the transistors?

It should not, thats why its there.

Quoted from boris_37:2) Why would the fuse blow when a plasma screen is connected? Is it simply the higher power draw?

Yes, could have a bad display or when you fixed the leg its shorted to another.

Quoted from boris_37:3) Is this likely interconnect related? I checked a bunch of the fuses on there... all fine.

No.

Quoted from boris_37:4) What else should I troubleshoot that won't cost me more 0.25 amp fuses. I need to buy more first

You can work on your flippers. Start by checking for DC power on the flipper coils.

#1342 5 years ago
Quoted from boris_37:

I actually swapped the board for a rottendog one i had sitting around and it fires up fine.

Which board did you swap?

Quoted from boris_37:would cause a whole bunch of coils to stop being able to fire?

Which coils don't fire, now they do fire with the new board?

Quoted from boris_37:I doubt every transistor was fried (although it is possible)...

Highly unlikely, maybe header pins.

#1344 5 years ago

Could the coils that didn't work be special solenoids 5 and 6. Lock the middle button down to repeat test. Use left button to advance one solenoid at a time when the middle button is locked down.

#1346 5 years ago

Page 28 of the manual shows you the name and number of each coil. Its important to know exactly which coils don't work. If it's all six special solenoids and the flippers then you should check U-56. If it's just special solenoids 5 and 6 and the flippers then check U-50.

#1348 5 years ago

If the flippers are fine now, then U-56 was bad. I don't think you should have changed U-49 and U-50 with out testing them.

Quoted from boris_37:Problem is fuses 3 and 4 on the interconnect board fry as soon as I power on because the kickers are locked on

There still is a problem, but you may have caused it by installing a bad U-50 chip. Do you have a logic probe?

#1350 5 years ago
Quoted from boris_37:

Nope but I will look into getting a logic probe.

If you plan on repairing your own boards this a great tool and cheap to buy.

Quoted from boris_37:I replaced U56 first like you had asked

I asked you to test it, not replace it. They way you described your problem I would have checked U-56 pins 5 and 6. If that checked good I would have checked U-50 pins 8-13. One of these was your problem.

Quoted from boris_37:According to Pinwiki U56 doesn't power any special solonoids

I don't know I have never read it, I'm just going by the factory schematics in front of me. There are 4 pages just for the CPU and if you look on page 1 lower right corner you will see U-56 sending a signal to both the flippers and the special solenoids.

Quoted from GRUMPY:There still is a problem, but you may have caused it by installing a bad U-50 chip.

U-50 is a nor chip that has four logic gates in it and the board uses all four. When using an unknown old chip you don't know if it 100% without testing it. Lets say the original U-50 had a bad output on pin 13 causing all of the special solenoids and the flippers to not work. Then you replaced it with a used chip with pins 1 and 4 bad, now your flippers work and special solenoids 1-4 work but 5-6 are locked on blowing fuses.
Since they are socketed you need to inspect the previous work done on U-50 and may as well just replace the chips with new as these are inexpensive.

#1352 5 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

waiting for spring.

Come over to my house and give a ride and play some pinball.

#1361 5 years ago
Quoted from tomh52722:

not one of my larger bulbs works.

Could you take a pic of them, I think you are referring to flash bulbs.

#1365 5 years ago

The bigger bulbs are 906 flash bulbs.

#1369 5 years ago
Quoted from Silvercoin:

Any idea where that might be? It is on a Jokerz machine.

Aux power supply.

#1371 5 years ago
Quoted from Silvercoin:

Which I already replaced with a whole new one...

What's the whole story, maybe someone can help.

#1373 5 years ago
Quoted from Silvercoin:

Once you end a game and the power is cut to the flippers the buzz goes away

Does it make the buzz during the game without pressing the flipper buttons.

#1379 5 years ago

Silvercoin there is a service tip from Williams for audio hum. Check the ipdp last file.

#1382 5 years ago
Quoted from Silvercoin:

Pinball life has a bridge @ 35A 200Volts

They have the wire bridge, you need a lug bridge.

#1385 5 years ago

Go Marcos and search this, KBPC3502-L

2 months later
#1435 4 years ago
Quoted from KornFreak28:

Is there any possible way to slide this Playfield forward?

No, just lift it out of the cabinet.

#1437 4 years ago

About 2/3 back on the side of the game set a folded up towel on the floor. Lift play field up and out and let it down on the towel apron end down. Place another towel on the side of the cabinet and lean the play field back board against the towel on the side of the game.

6 months later
3 months later
#1622 3 years ago
Quoted from Vino:

intermittent power off to flippers.

Remove the cpu board and reflow the solder joints on the relay pins on the back side of the board.

#1634 3 years ago
Quoted from bronco-jon:

What should I look for to fix this problem?

Have you rebuilt the power supply?

3 weeks later
#1669 3 years ago
Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

Pop switch is staying closed so needs adjustment

Is the switch staying closed because the skirt is sticking or was the switch adjusted too tight, either way this needs to be addressed first. After this you need to see if the pop plunger moves up/down freely, if not replace the coil, sleeve and diode. If the coil was damaged then you need to replace the driver and predriver. If the coil is ok then replace the fuse and test.

2 weeks later
#1682 3 years ago

Looks fine to me.

#1697 3 years ago
Quoted from shicketmaster:

I was just making sure there wasn't anything i could check myself on the board before sending it off for repair.

You will need a logic probe to test the MPU.

2 weeks later
#1703 3 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Shit! Only 18 to go!
rd

Worried Dave?

1 month later
#1751 3 years ago
Quoted from billsfanmd:

Then just alligator clip a GI bulb?

Power from the coin door bulbs.

1 month later
#1777 3 years ago
Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

I want to actually narrow down and find the problem before replacing components

Perfect.

Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

I made a jumper to do a quick short across 7 and 8 and nothing happened.

This narrows down the amount of bad componets it could be.

Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

So from what I gathered the next step is to test the 7402?

Pins 2 and 3 are inputs for the NOR gate, pin 1 is the output the turns on the predriver and the driver. To test the chip place your probe on pin 2 and press the switch closed and the probe which was high will go low every time you press the switch. Place the probe on pin 3 it should be a high, now start a game and it should go low. Now in a game place probe on pin 1 and it should be low then hit the switch and pin 1 should go high each time the switch is pressed.

#1779 3 years ago
Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

I was not sure what pins 3

This input is what activates this circuit for a game. So when you start a game it goes low. Put CPU in diagnostics it goes low. If you tilt the game while playing it goes high to let the ball drain. A NOR gate has to have both inputs to be low at the same time to allow a high on the output pin 1.

Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:With pin 1 when I touched the probe to it the probe lit high and low together and buzzed.

Most likely U-50 is bad but you can remove the predriver from the circuit to isolate the chip and retest to know for sure.

1 week later
#1784 3 years ago
Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

Not sure what next possibility could be. Thought I had it.

You did use a 2n4401 and installed in the correct direction (just gotta ask). The Q-67 could be DOA. When Q-76 was out did you check the 3 resistors in this circuit for correct ohms, I have seen some crazy stuff for sure.

#1786 3 years ago
Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

R102 is showing 10.7V

Was this millivolts?

Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:Here are my results
104 - 66.2
103 - 557
102 - 2.67k
Seems to be in order there

These are fine.

Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

I checked voltage at the resistors and R103 has 1.3V

This should be .08 or less to be a low. You can check pin 4 for a ref.

#1788 3 years ago
Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:

First to answer the earlier question it was 10V I was reading.

Must of been bleeding from the coil B+ voltage thru Q-77.

Quoted from SunMonkeyAZ:Bad news is sorry for wasting time.

No, this will help someone in the future so it's not a waste of time.

1 month later
#1795 3 years ago
Quoted from Sciddleybop1980:

I was going to swap out some boards with my Taxi. Are they compatible????

No need. More times then not you will have 2 damaged boards.

#1798 3 years ago
Quoted from Sciddleybop1980:

Thesefaults seems to be power related, booting on second try and weak coils. Which leads me to believe failing components on the board itself.

It is quicker for me to test a few things first then to exchange boards. Also it doesn't do 25+ year old connectors and boards to be removed and installed over and over. For a route operator it was easier to swap boards and return to there workshop for board repairs, you on the other hand are not in a rush turn earn another quarter (50 pence).

Quoted from Sciddleybop1980:Thesefaults seems to be power related, booting on second try and weak coils.

This can be connectors too. But we can't help if we don't know what the voltage readings are on the original boards.

#1800 3 years ago

If were me, and there was no battery corrosion! I would still buy it. But I can fix board problems.

#1807 3 years ago
Quoted from Sciddleybop1980:

Yes, it looks free from corrosion. I'll keep you posted. Thanks thus far

This means that it will be the power supply or the CPU . If you check the 5 and 12 volts on the power supply you will know which board is the issue.

#1811 3 years ago
Quoted from Piratedan200:

I've got a number of segments out on my lower display on a BK2K. Is it something as simple as a burned out resistor or are the tubes likely toast?

It can be a number of things causing this. It's not the display glass.
Is there any corrosion around the batteries?

#1814 3 years ago
Quoted from Piratedan200:

Nope, and there's a remote battery holder installed as well.

Do you have a logic probe?

1 week later
#1822 3 years ago
Quoted from Plumonium:

Need you help guys.
I re-installed my playfield into my Pinbot and flipped the switch for the first time in 15 months. It looked good and was ready to run some tests and while I was away, I came back and playfield GI was now OFF. Backbox GI is fine.
??

Did you rebuild the GI relays?

#1827 3 years ago

Check your relay for cracked solder joints. Check solenoid 12 in test and see if the relay is clicking.

547c242c792f8fb14675f532643900f336f42810 (resized).jpg

3 months later
#1884 3 years ago

Check the bridge rectifier for coil power. Look at gi relays for crack solder joints.

547c242c792f8fb14675f532643900f336f42810 (resized).jpg

#1886 3 years ago
Quoted from trueno92:

Any reason my late run f14 would be wired with these weaker coils?

These coils are the same strength as FL11630, someone used them because they had them.

Quoted from trueno92:

Looking at the picture is there any other wiring adjustments that need to be made

Make sure the new coils diodes are orientated correctly and you wire just like the pictures.

pasted_image (resized).png

pasted_image (resized).png

#1899 3 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Will look at the BR for the solenoid issue.

With a meter check the voltage on the orange and black wire of the top bridge rectifier. It should be @ 34 volts DC.

5b5bcbcc1ca5b99ca783b7e5c8783c7d5db12c85 (resized).jpg

#1902 3 years ago
Quoted from trueno92:

Any idea why? Coil strength should be the same?!

New sleeves and EOS switch will make a big improvement. Just adjusting the EOS switch correctly can make a big difference.

#1907 3 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

I am not sure where to go next. Thoughts?

What is the board number on the cpu?

#1911 3 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Do you mean system b board?

Sometimes a different board is used in a machine that it was not intended for. So if you can post a pic of the board or the serial number I can let you know if this is a board that works or not. If this is a compatible board then there's a problem on the board for the SS solenoid enable circuit. No sense starting to troubleshoot when it can also be a simple compatibility problem.

#1916 3 years ago

This is a correct version board for the pin.

I would check the output of U-56 pin 6 after starting a game. If you are using a logic probe it will be a low. If you are using a DMM it should read 0.8 volts and lower.

#1917 3 years ago
#1922 3 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Pin 6 starts high and does not go low when a game is started.

This is your problem, now with a game started check U-50 pins 11,12 and 13.

#1926 3 years ago

U-50 pin 11 is the game enable signal and when you start a game it will go from a high to a low. Pin 12 is the blanking signal and when the CPU is booted correctly this will be a low at this point. U-50 is a NOR chip, if both inputs (pin 11,12) are lows the output pin 13 will be a high. You said you have lows at all 3 pins, but you also said if you short pins 11 and 12 together that K-1 clicks. This would sound like you have a poor connection on one of the input pins. I would take a jumper connected to ground and with a game started touch said jumper to pin 11 and then pin 12 of U-50. If there is any change in K-1 relay then you have found where your problem lies. You have said there has been corrosion in the past and this is most likely your problem now. Also if you have a chip socket installed at U-50 it may have a cold solder joint on one of the pins.

#1928 3 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Pin 11 I cannot get reading from.

Either U-50 is bad or U-10 is bad. You can cut pin 11 in half and test each side to know for sure.

Quoted from jedi42:When I keep ground on pin 11, the flippers, pop bumpers, etc all work. That's the good news.

This is good but it sounds like your SS #1 has a problem and will need to be troubleshot as soon as you get pin 11 of U-50 sorted out.

1 week later
#1935 3 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Are you still thinking U-10 may be bad?

Maybe, check for continuity between U-10 pin 19 and U-50 pin 11. If continuity is good then U-10 is most likely bad.

#1937 3 years ago

Post some pics of the front and back of the board. I don't like to add wires unless necessary.

1 week later
#1940 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

I can't tell where the trace from pin 19 of U-10 exits the chip. Seems like it is under the chip where it enters pin 19.

U-10 does not have a socket so I wouldn't worry about it. U-50 does have a socket and I would be looking for the trace break somewhere around it.

#1943 2 years ago

Your yellow arrow is on pin 4, move straight up to pin 11.

#1946 2 years ago

The one that is a scratch break can easily be fixed by carefully removing the green solder mask an 1/8 inch on each side of the break. Then take one strand of wire from a piece of wire and lay across the break and solder it in place. Then cover with green nail polish. The other break maybe easier to jump with a wire on the back side of the board.

#1949 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

That brought to life the flippers and slingshots!

So SS #2, #4 are working now. So what do you get at pin 3 and 6 of U-50 with a game started.

#1956 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

When I grounded Q77 (middle pop), the fuse would blow.

Is the coil resistance low? Is the coil diode shorted?

Quoted from jedi42:During one test I could ground Q79 (lower pop bumper) and Q73 (right pop) and both would fire

Check the switch adjustment on the right pop, maybe to sensitive and going off on vibration.

#1961 2 years ago

Check the zener diode on the switch input for this coil as it maybe shorted.

Quoted from jedi42:Did some logic testing. Q76 and Q77 are giving me the weird readings ( as compared to the others). Going to go ahead and replace them both and see what happens.
U-50 tested as you suggested below.

#1967 2 years ago
Quoted from Leosac:

0 for 2.....Taxi and Whirlwind problems

Sounds like both need the power supplies rebuilt.

Quoted from Leosac:Would also be open to the name of a good Pinball repair guy in the Maryland suburbs outside Washington DC.

I'm a fair repairman, but don't live in DC.

1 week later
#1989 2 years ago
Quoted from Axl:

Sys 11 wizards. Is it possible to use the display from bride of pinbot in system 11 games?

Are you wanting to use the the display glass or the whole unit with the driver board?

#1995 2 years ago
Quoted from PinWiz1969:

Is that correct?

Yes, B2 negative connection is also the same as the positive connection of B3. You need to look at the trace on the back of the board.

#2006 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Thoughts of how to diagnose this?

Have you replaced C-30 on the CPU?

#2008 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

Not a voltage issue from power supply, as same thing happens when powered by a desktop power supply.

Do you have the 12 volt hooked up to the CPU? Check the solder joints on L-1 and L-2. Does your CPU have zero ohm jumpers?

#2011 2 years ago

I don't like to install sockets unless there is a purpose for it. If it were my board I would remove the socket and solder direct to the board like the factory. I would not touch the other chip unless removing the socket didn't correct the issue.

#2014 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

It seems to go against a lot of other advice from people.

A good soldered connection does not go bad. A socket is there for ease of replacement which isn't needed in this case. A socket adds 40 extra chances of a bad connection for no reason. Now I'm not saying you should solder in a 40 pin chip with out testing the chip first, but a know good chip should be soldered directly to the board. In 28 years of owning pinball machines I have never replaced any pia chips in my pins or any others. This is because I rebuild the power supplies first when I get a new machine, before I even turn it on. Once I am done repairing a newly acquired pin I never have to do board work again. Here is a pic that I took from the hack post. Why would it be in the worst hack post if everyone thought sockets would help troubleshoot board problems. I will most likely get a 100 down votes for saying this, but this is what I believe to be best. Oh and I always replace the battery holders on my boards with new ones after I inspect for leakage and clean, just to keep it original.

pasted_image (resized).png

2 weeks later
#2039 2 years ago
Quoted from Axl:

Where do I begin my journey?

Does the left and right cellar lamps burn out quickly too?

#2041 2 years ago
Quoted from Axl:

Yes, the cellar burns out quickly.

This is the entire column 5 that is burning out because it is not being pulsed correctly. You need to check strobe #5 (Q-58) on the cpu board and compare it to strobe #4 circuit. In all lamp test check the output of U-52 pin 3 and compare it to U-53 pin 6. Then compare Q-57 to Q-59 by checking SR16 pins 5 and 6. Lastly compare Q-58 to Q-60 by checking 1J7 pins 4 and 6. Something will not look the same.

1 week later
#2053 2 years ago
Quoted from zene10:

Is this normal?

No.

Quoted from zene10:

Shooter lane switch is working correctly.

Does it have a pink connector on the switch? Yes, cut it off and solder wire to the switch.

3 weeks later
#2101 2 years ago
Quoted from Rondogg:

11b - Does anyone know if there are supposed to be diodes on the Pop Bumper solenoids?

No.

1 week later
#2127 2 years ago
Quoted from Sk0r:

I checked the EOS gap and it looks OK, also cleaned it

There is more to it then the gap when open.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinbot-left-flipper-blows-fuse-and-melts-lane-switch-plastic#post-3660333

#2141 2 years ago
Quoted from patrickvc:

Hopefully that’s all that’s wrong with it.

Why don't you use a ohm meter to find which transistor is shorted.

#2144 2 years ago
Quoted from patrickvc:

I did and I replaced it already

Quoted from patrickvc:

Also I hear a coil fire when I switch on the game.

Not for this coil. You need to do another look see and find which coil this is.

Quoted from patrickvc:I found the coil wires tied together with s bullet connector and figured it blew the transistor because they were connected.

These will need to be separated first and with a dead short like this the coil diode will need to be replaced also. If the coil diode has not been replace it maybe shorted causing the fuse to blow.

#2146 2 years ago
Quoted from patrickvc:

I will check everything when I get home.

I would start by disconnecting 1J11, 1J12 and 1J19. Then replace F-4 and turn on the power and listen for a locked coil and see if the fuse burns. If all is good then connect each connector one at a time to isolate which connector it is. Let us know your findings.

#2152 2 years ago
Quoted from patrickvc:

I’m leaning towards u17 is bad

Well U-17 was part of the circuit that was shorted when solenoid 15 was turned on. You can double check this by taking a voltage reading on pins 1,5,9 and 12 of U-17 just to make sure that it is not the pia chip too. These 4 inputs should be low 0.8 volts or less in attract mode. If they are low and the outputs are high then the chip is bad.

#2155 2 years ago

You need to double check this, if you are getting 3 volts then the pia chip may have been damaged as well. I posted a chip pic, start at the notch and go in a counter clockwise direction.

Quoted from patrickvc:

If I check at the main board I have 12v with the target bank connectors taken off. 8.5v with just 1 set connected

Don't know what you mean by main board, but it sound as if there are some bad header pins and connectors.

7408 (resized).png

#2158 2 years ago
Quoted from patrickvc:

board below main board

This would be the inner connect board, these boards are known for crack header joints on the solder side.

Quoted from patrickvc:

I do get 3 volts dc at those points. 3y also now has continuity with ground

You got a lot to fix on the CPU.

1 month later
#2189 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

As soon as I attach it to the MPU pins, the voltage drops to 4.7, and at that level the board will never boot. Is that normal?

No this is not normal, a chip on the board is bad dragging down the five volts or the power supply is not large enough to supply enough current to maintain the five volts. See if after being on for ten minutes if you can find a warm chip.

#2191 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

The only chips that have any extra heat are the 2 6802s at u15 and u24.

That is normal for these chips.

Quoted from jedi42:

the voltage drops to 4.7

What is the voltage at the power supply? Is your jumper wires large enough to supply plenty of current?

#2195 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

I am assuming that the 4.95v will suffice to boot a board?

This fine, did you hook up a 12 volt line too?

#2215 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

- board would boot if I left it on for 10 minutes then re-powered on, or if I flexed the board. Everything was working once it started.

Have you replaced the chip sockets for the rom chips?

#2217 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

No I haven't touched them (assuming you are talking about u21 and u22).

No U-26 and U-27. U-21 and U-22 are sound ROMs and will not cause this kind of issue.

#2223 2 years ago
Quoted from Rick37160:

How is that going to affect game play?

Not at all. As for your displays, did you have a good blanking signal at the display board?

#2225 2 years ago
Quoted from Rick37160:

I'm new at this. How do I check the blanking signal?

You can check it with a voltmeter or a logic probe. If you need help with there operation, just ask. Do you have a manual? Page #86 shows you that the blanking signal leaves the CPU board on pin 2 of J-22 on the way to the display board. Page #88 is the display board and it shows that the blanking signal goes U1,U2,U5 and U6. So if you measure pin 1 of U1 on the display board after the game boots up it should read as a low on a logic probe or read 0.8 volts DC or lower on the voltmeter. If you see a high or 5 volts DC then your ribbon cable maybe bad or you may have a problem with the CPU board. To check to see if the ribbon cable is bad you can reverse both ends and retest. If this doesn't help then you need to test pin 2 of J-22 on the CPU board as a bad trace or cold solder joint on J-22 can cause this.

1 month later
#2268 2 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Anyone know if I can test the special solenoids section of a High Speed (11) in a Cyclone (11b)? I am helping someone fix 2 locked on jets and a sling on their high speed. I want to test this part, after replacing components, before bringing the board back.

Not unless you add a jumper on the back of the High Speed board. The SS input switch ground connection is different from a 11 to a 11A game.

#2289 2 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

Actually, grumpy might recognise that symptom off the top of his head?

Have you changed C-30 yet?

#2291 2 years ago
Quoted from ajfclark:

Nope. I'll put it on the to do list?

U-41 and or U-51 may not be getting a long enough reset pulse during power up sometimes. This is just an idea, not a proven fact by me.

#2293 2 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Here is one for High Speed. Putting LED flashers in and they are staying on at all times. Something locked on?

You need to remove the warming resistors.

#2312 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

I have been looking at the switch matrix components on the MPU board. grumpy any ideas?

With j-8 and j-10 disconnected, power on the machine and check each pin of j-10 at the cpu board. You should find a steady 5 vdc on each pin.

#2314 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

What does that tell us?

It tells us that SR11 might be cracked between pin 5 and 6. With the power off check the ohms of SR11 pin 1 to pin 6. It should be 560 ohms. Pin 1 has a white dot on the board.

#2317 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

It (SR11 pin 1 to 6) measured 560. In the process I managed to crack SRC6. Whoops.

It was most likely cracked before. Replace it. Now for SR11, I would just replace it. When removed it may just fall apart in pieces. After you replace both, retest and let us know what you get.

#2323 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Replacing SR11 and SRC6 did fix the switch matrix issue.

Play Ball!

#2325 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Do you have a suggestion

You will need to describe you issue in more detail.

#2329 2 years ago

I shouldn't type after midnight.

#2330 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

The 5A fuse on the flipper power supply board blows instantly upon power up.

Quoted from GRUMPY:

gutz beat me to the punch on this. He is correct is stating that the bridge rectifier most likely needs to be replaced also replace C-1 and reflow the header pins and you will done with this board.

#2342 2 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Taking boards from a gameshow over to a transporter

I don't think this will work as dozer1 has stated.

#2345 2 years ago
Quoted from Darkwing:

I'm trying to find a replacement for the broken plastic lip/ledge on the bottom of my Rollergames translite.

https://www.pinballlife.com/index.php?p=product&id=4920

#2351 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

It could be that the schematic is wrong and my sound board is just not working properly.

This is the most likely situation here. Start by checking for 5 and negative 12 volts on the sound board. If this is good then you will need an oscope to test further.

#2355 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Voltage is a bit high.
-12 = -16.5
+5 = 5.91

This pin is likely set on high tap. You need to change it back to 115 setting. Do this first thing before something blows.

#2365 2 years ago

TTL chips are rated for a maximum of 5.25 volts, you need to look at this NOW!.

#2368 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

False alarm on the voltage. I replaced my battery on my meter and it is exactly 5.0 volts.

Emergency averted, on to your regular scheduled programming!

#2388 2 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Having major issues with this board.

Pins 7,8,9 and 10 are GI pins and still look fine. Pin 1 and pin 2 are 28 volt and 50 volt from the AC relay. Now the big question is what is connected to this on the insert board.

#2396 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

I would like to diagnose the problem better without shotgunning.

Are you sure the speech is made on the sound board and not the CPU board.

#2399 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Why would pin 19 on U9 have no output in sound test?

Have you tested u-23 and u-24?

#2401 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

My shotgun is almost out of bullets. Lol.

Do you have an output from Q-1. What do you have on U-9 pin 39.

#2405 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

grumpy I forgot to mention that both MPU diagnostic buttons (sound and the CPU one) do not work. Could this be related to my speech issue?

U-24 pin 6, what do you read, then press and hold the diagnostic switch #1, what do you read now?

#2407 2 years ago

Try the same thing on U-15 pin 6, and diagnostic switch #2.

2 weeks later
#2422 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Where is the best place to start troubleshooting this?

Replace the sockets for the game roms on the cpu.

#2424 2 years ago
Quoted from kermit24:

Got it. I'll give that a try.

Also reflow some of the vias around this area too.

#2429 2 years ago

More sanding and neutralizing is needed before moving on next step.

#2435 2 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

but is this enough?

Here is a couple spots that still need some sanding and cleaning, there maybe a few more.

board 1 (resized).jpg
2 weeks later
#2475 2 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

The output for sol7 low pulsing to no tone.

That would indicate that there is no power on the coil, coil winding has a break in it or a break in the wire from the coil to the Cpu 1J-11 pin 8.

#2477 2 years ago
Quoted from Tomass:

Does that make it a problem on the aux board?

It might be R-3 on the aux board, or a cracked header pin on 5J1 pin 2.

3 months later
#2575 2 years ago
Quoted from mbaumle:

Which is a shame, since EMs can be fixed with a screwdriver, flexstone/emery board, and a pair of pliers in almost all cases without removing anything from the game--assuming there isn't a catastrophic failure or fried coil.
At the very least, a SS game is going to require a ton of odds and ends, connector parts, transistors, ICs, sockets, soldering iron, logic probe, multimeter, whatever, just to cover as many failure points as possible.

You maybe correct but some of us myself included can't make heads or tails of the ladder diagrams, and I think I am a fair troubleshooter.

#2579 2 years ago
Quoted from desertT1:

I have to switch the way I look at them a little.

That's my problem, but I don't what I am missing to make things click.

3 weeks later
#2672 1 year ago
Quoted from heni1977:

desertt1 you might hit up grumpy he may know. I saw a 1 1/2 latching cam with 7/8 barrel on PBL site.

I got nothing. I could take measurements if that helps.

2 weeks later
#2690 1 year ago
Quoted from kermit24:

grumpy any idea here?

Did you test out the data lines to nearby PIA chip like U-10? Just because the data lines are good to the ROMs doesn't mean they are still good to the PIAs. These traces start on the top side of the board under the chip and travel thru vias to the bottom side of the board and then to the PIA chip U-10.

#2695 1 year ago
Quoted from desertT1:

Is this a logic probe task? Is the process documented at all?

No, just ohm them out, U-25 D0 to U-10 D0, U-25 D1 to U-10 D1 and so on.

#2697 1 year ago
Quoted from desertT1:

I’m not sure I’m following the relationship between U25 and U10.

u-25 (resized).jpg
1 week later
#2705 1 year ago
Quoted from desertT1:

I’ll save everyone the head scratching. 1J9 and 1J11 are keyed the same and on the same row. If you plug the solenoids into 1J9 you will toast SR13.

Ouch! Hopefully it stopped at SR13.

#2707 1 year ago
Quoted from desertT1:

At least 10 games and the game is playing well and playing fast.

You should go and buy a lotto ticket!

#2716 1 year ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Now that I have gameplay, I've found that the left and right Hideout kickers and the left outhole kicker don't work. I can hear a click during Solenoid Test, but they don't fire

There is a single fuse holder in the back box for those coils, should have a purple wire on it.

#2718 1 year ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

The two right red flashers don't work

The 2 bulbs are wired in series, so if one bulb is burnt out neither will work.

Quoted from Alan_L:

but their transistor does not flash them when grounded.

So it's a play field issue, a broken dropping resistor, burnt bulb or a broken wire.

3 weeks later
#2742 1 year ago
Quoted from darcangeloel:

someone used a rock instead of a pinball.

It's not multi ball, it's multi pebbles.

6 months later
#2867 1 year ago
#2874 1 year ago
Quoted from Scrimmbo:

just wondering if it should be there (i think so?), and what the purpose of those capacitors is generally.

Yes it should be there, it reduces the sparks across the EOS switch contacts which makes them last longer.

#2876 1 year ago
Quoted from yaksplat:

Is that the same with the ones on the flipper switches?

Yep.

3 weeks later
#2878 1 year ago
Quoted from sawbill:

Does anyone know where to find service switch 3 bank assembly for the coin door?

You can buy the individual switches from Digikey in MN.

#2880 1 year ago
Quoted from sawbill:

red/black buttons at Digikey as well.

Yes they have them too. Playball!

3 weeks later
#2928 1 year ago
Quoted from nightsearcher:

Does anyone make a good aftermarket power supply board for system 9/11?

Why would you not want the original power supply?

#2941 1 year ago
Quoted from Scrimmbo:

Here's the power supply. I checked that I put all the caps in the right direction. The only one I haven't changed is the little guy in the lower right, between the relay and the heat sync.[quoted image]

I'm betting on a bad bridge rectifier. But you need to change C-8 too!

#2947 1 year ago
Quoted from woody76:

Can a original high speed MPU Williams system 11 CPU, Part # D-10881 work in a System 11B (police force)?

Yes if you add a jumper wire on the back of the board.

#2949 1 year ago

On the system 11 CPU pins 6 and 7 are not connected to ground. The ground for the special solenoids switches comes from the power supply. On the system 11A and later pins 6 and 7 are connected to ground on the CPU board. On these systems the ground for special solenoids comes from pin 7 and not the power supply. So if you take and add a jumper from J-18 pin 6 to the outside edge of the board ground plane. Then the board can be used in any system 11 game.

11 (resized).PNG11b (resized).PNG
#2951 1 year ago
Quoted from Scrimmbo:

Do you think I should change Br1? Seems like the only bridge on the P-supply board. I have a few KBPC3504-W's laying around. That's a 35a 400v bridge, would that work as a replacement?

Since the noise goes away when you remove F-1 fuse, the issue is the high voltage portion of the board. You could check for AC volts on each of the +/- 100 volt circuits.

#2957 1 year ago
Quoted from PAR:

coil still locks on on boot, but the machine consistently boots, (Q33 transistor tests okay with a MM in the machine.)

Is this on the original board?

Quoted from PAR:

I have a new Rottendog CPU board but I am concerned that if the problem is on the Aux Power Board I will fry something on the new Rottendog CPU.

The outhole coil is controlled by the CPU not the aux power supply. So the problem should be on the CPU.

#2959 1 year ago
Quoted from guitarded:

Anyone know where to score some Chrome Rivets to attach my 'Bally' Logo to the speaker cover panel?

Id use nickel rivets.

2 weeks later
#2979 1 year ago
Quoted from mulder2010:

Where would you check first?

Fuse on the aux power supply.

#2985 1 year ago
Quoted from mulder2010:

2 amp s/b! Replaced that and now it's fixed. Thanks!

Playball!

1 month later
#3023 11 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Any ideas on what to check next?

18 volt bridge rectifier.

#3025 11 months ago

It's mounted in the lower right corner of the back box. There also is a fuse for it right next to it.

#3027 11 months ago

Start with checking for DC voltage on the violet and the black wires on the bridge rectifier. No voltage then check for AC voltage on the blue/white wires. No AC voltage then check the fuse.

#3030 11 months ago
Quoted from Nihonmasa:

Hi Grumpy, any idea on my above post?

I'm not sure what you mean, (not starting when it should mainly) can you be more specific about the problem.

#3033 11 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Replaced it—problem solved.

Playball!!

#3034 11 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

I rechecked the fuse (which I am sure tested okay a couple of days ago) and it was bad.

This is one of those cases that if you didn't remove the fuse first it would read good.

#3035 11 months ago
Quoted from Nihonmasa:

For example when starting a game,

Do you mean turning on the power or do you mean starting a game of a fully warmed up machine?

#3038 10 months ago
Quoted from Nihonmasa:

Starting a game with a fully warmed up machine.

I have to ask, did you check the voltages going to the sound board? You could use your Mousing Around sound board in your SOF to make sure it"s not CPU or game related. Just swap the sound Roms over.

#3051 10 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Is there any benefit to using a 1n4004 or 1n4007 or should I stay with the original?

The benefit to using the 1n4007 is only having to buy/store one type to get the job done. And no down side.

#3063 10 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Could the microswitch and/or diode be the issue?

Cut that pink connector off and solder the wires directly, retest.

3 months later
#3131 7 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

1) How do I figure out the part number to order and who stocks them?

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/5792-10818-05

Quoted from schwism:

2) what tool do I need do get the wires connected to the plug?

https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/77-IDC156

#3140 7 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Which is correct? Or will either work?

Yes either will work.
There is a big debate on whether to use IDC connectors or not. If used for what they were intended to be use on they work great and last a very long time. But when misused as Williams did when they used them for GI connections at a constant 5 amp draw, they will fail in short order. The connector you need to replace has little to no current draw and only needed to be replaced because of operator error.

1 month later
#3154 5 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

What should I check next?

Most likely you burnt a trace off of the inner connect board or aux power supply board.

#3159 5 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Thanks Grumpy. I read through that and see a lot of good info. I’ll get going on figuring this out.

This was just one place that can open up. It can happen on the back of the Aux power supply too.

1 week later
#3166 5 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Update on this. BR2 was showing 1600 readings instead of OL so I replaced it. New one show the same readings and the old one tests normal off the board. Transistors all test okay. Is this a diode issue or something else?

Did you pull out the inner connect board to look at the traces?

#3168 5 months ago
Quoted from schwism:

Yes, I did that yesterday. Issue was easy to find and fix (the other three wires were put in before I bought the machine). All is well now.
I learned a lot from the process and fortunately the fix was easy and inexpensive.
Thanks Grumpy for pointing me in the right direction. [quoted image][quoted image]

Playball!

1 month later
#3191 4 months ago
Quoted from uncivil_engineer:

I have the honor of being banned from buying from him because I had the gaul to return something.

Count your lucky stars.

2 weeks later
#3199 3 months ago
Quoted from mystman12:

The high score reset button on my Mousin' Around isn't working, and I'm not really sure where to start diagnosing the problem. Nothing on the switch itself stands out to me as incorrect, although it's probably worth noting that my game is missing an interlock switch. I'm not sure if that would have anything to do with it or not.
[quoted image]

Do you realize that you have to hold it for more than 5 seconds to reset the high score.

#3202 3 months ago
Quoted from mystman12:

Okay I haven't fixed the switch, but I found a workaround. I just stuck a screwdriver across two of the switch contacts and got it to register after about a second. That's good enough for me!
[quoted image]

You may need a new diode.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 29.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
PinBoss Mods
$ 125.00
$ 125.00
Cabinet - Toppers
Sparky Pinball
$ 29.99
Eproms
Matt's Basement Arcade
$ 12.50
Cabinet - Sound/Speakers
Gweem's Mods
$ 999.00
Flipper Parts
Mircoplayfields

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider grumpy.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside