(Topic ID: 43458)
Linked Games
Bad Cats
Williams, 1989-
Banzai Run
Williams, 1988
-
Big Guns
Williams, 1987
-
Black Knight 2000
Williams, 1989
-
Bugs Bunny's Birthday Ball
Bally, 1990
-
Cyclone
Williams, 1988
-
Diner
Williams, 1990
-
Dr. Dude
Bally, 1990
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7 months later
Quoted from trueno92:I was afraid that if I heat the leg too much, it would heat the entire leg and heat inside the glass sandwich, so I just wanted to go quick and dirty
Heatsink pliers?
Quoted from trueno92:No idea. Just figured the temp on the legs at hole thru surface mount is a quick spot on the board.
Didn't want the leg to heard then cool and the gass escapes in the process!
I mean, if you had some heatsink pliers you could put them on the leg between where you're soldering and the heat sensitive component. They should reduce the amount of heat that travels along the leg.
Quoted from trueno92:Oh piles that can trap the heat? I've never heard of these before but they sound perfect for this purpose.
They look something like this:
80V_X103-2 (resized).jpg
They are sprung so they hold on by themselves, which can also be useful to hold something in place, etc.
4 weeks later
1 month later
Quoted from jedi42:I believe the BRs are good. I have it now narrowed down to perhaps the ground on the special solenoids. When I look at the manual, everything that isn't working is listed as special solenoids 17-22 (and the flippers). There is voltage at the flipper coils, and I can fire the right dock kickback by grounding the transistor on the MPU. The MPU board was sent for repairs and tested there, so I am hoping that is not the issue (but can't be sure).
I am not sure where to go next. Thoughts?
The specials and flippers all come back to the CPU board through the same connector. What's 1J19 look like?
Quoted from jedi42:Don't think it is wiring issue. I can fire the solenoids if I ground the transistor on the mpu. For example if I ground q73, it fires the right pop bumper. To me,
that would eliminate the mpu connectjons/wiring and the auxiliary board connections.
Am I correct in this?
Correct, grounding the tab on Q73 tests that there's a path from the coil through the connector to the collector of Q73.
It does not test 1J18 which is where the switches for the specials come back from the playfield.
The other side of the circuit for that solenoid is U41 (pin 19) to U49 to U45 to Q72 to Q73.
I'd start with U45.
I'd check the voltage on pins 1 2 and 3.
In attract mode 2 and 3 should be high, 1 should be low.
Close the switch on the on the pop and pin 2 should go low which shows that 1J18 is ok for that solenoid.
Go in to diagnostics and the flippers should enable (do you hear the click?), pin 3 should go low.
Close the switch on the pop again and pin 2 should go low and pin 1 go high.
Quoted from jedi42:When I go into diagnostics, no noise from flipper and no change to state of pins 1-3 when I close switch again.
The noise isn't the flipper, it's the flipper enable relay. It should click when you enter diagnostics (or adjustments or start a game). If it doesn't something beyond my ability to help is wrong.
pasted_image (resized).png
You can see pin 6 on U56 that grumpy got you to probe middle left. It's connected to pin 3 of U45 that I was asking about.
K1 is the flipper enable relay. You can see that if U56 pin 6 is high, u50 pin 10 will be low, so Q67 is off and therefore K1 is off.
I'd keep following that path down.
When in diagnostic/game what these read?
U56 pin 5
U50 pin 11, 12 & 13
1 week later
Quoted from jedi42:And am i reading the schematics correctly that pin 11 of U-50 is fed by pin 19 of U-10?
Correct. U50 pin 11 should be connected to U10 pin 19.
1 week later
Quoted from jedi42:What isn't working yet are the pop pumpers and right ball lock. Have to try and trace down what is happening with them, and why they aren't getting power.
Contrary to the manual, they are all on the same wire, red-white, which is fused by F3. I'd start checking voltages from there.
Quoted from jedi42:I then disconnected 1J19 from the MPU. Games starts, and nothing happens. As soon as I reconnect the plug, the bottom pop immediately fires, and stays on until the fuse blows.
Is this telling me anything?
Yes. 1J19 is the ground for the special solenoids. The fuse is blowing because there's a path to ground that's being held on too long. The driver circuit for the bottom jet is Q79 and friends.
Q79 would be the likely candidate but given the other issues you've had with the board, I'd check continuity between everything on that schematic.
If that all checks out, I'd leave 1J19 disconnected. Turn on, go into diag. Check the voltage at:
- U50 pin 4 (low), 5 (high), 6 (low)
- Q78 base (low), collector (high) and emitter (low)
- Q79 base (low), collector (will float with 1J19 disconnected) and emitter (low)
Quoted from jedi42:Did some logic testing. Q76 and Q77 are giving me the weird readings ( as compared to the others). Going to go ahead and replace them both and see what happens.
Q76 and Q77 are special solenoid #5, left jet.
1 week later
Quoted from ChrisS:Just added another. F-14. Looking at a Taxi this weekend.
Radical
Pool Sharks
Gameshow
Dr. Dude
EATPM
Bad Cats
Diner
Police Force
Riverboat Gambler
Swords of Fury
Cyclone
Jokerz
F-14
I'm really enjoying the two Sys11s I have here ( Space Station and Radical!) and a police force came up nearby-ish...
What do you think of Police Force?
Quoted from jmountjoy111:I loved police force. It’s cheesy as all get out but I love it. The call outs are hilarious
It's not just shoot the middle ramp all day?
Cabinet needs work: https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/west-croydon/miscellaneous-goods/police-force-pinball-machine/1175305700
Quoted from ChrisS:I miss space station. That layout was just so unique with the slings right against the flippers.
Yeah, it's great. I really love it. Even when my muscle memory from every other game says TRAP so I do and it rolls up onto the slingshot and PUNT down the opposite outlane...
In fact, I think that's probably one of the things I love the most about it. It forces you to play differently to a lot of other machines. I think that gives it great longevity even in a small collection. My dead flips and live catches are 1000% better for playing it.
The music throughout the game and show when you get a high score are pretty sensational too.
Quoted from rotordave:Police Force is awesome!!
SWEEPING RAT! (That’s when you sweep the rat drops!)
Danni and I were playing it the other day. She was wasting me, so on ball 3 I shot the ramp twice and “stole her score” and really pissed her off!
Hahahaha
rd
Do you call that The Bradbury Maneuver?
Quoted from rotordave:Dunno what that is ...
From http://slll.cass.anu.edu.au/centres/andc/meanings-origins/b :
Bradbury: do a Bradbury
Be the unlikely winner of an event; to win an event coming from well behind. The phrase comes from the name of Steven Bradbury, who won a gold medal in speed skating at the 2002 Winter Olympics after his opponents fell. For a detailed discussion of this phrase see our blog 'Doing a Bradbury: an Aussie term born in the Winter Olympics' (which includes a video of Bradbury's famous win http://ozwords.org/?p=5912 ), and our Word of the Month article from August 2008 (http://slll.cass.anu.edu.au/sites/default/files/andc/WOTM%20Aug.%202008.pdf ).
2002 Sydney Morning Herald 19 February: Maybe Doing a Bradbury will become a common saying in Australian sport[:] To succeed only because everyone else fell over. The Socceroos need some of that luck.
2014 Herald Sun (Melbourne) 10 July: Someone would one day do a 'Bradbury' and finish third or fourth in the Brownlow Medal yet be crowned the winner.
You can watch the whole race here:
1 month later
Quoted from Chosen_S:Bro, you have no idea how excited I am to have this project, even if I find a full machine, I’m still going through with the process. But I need parts!!!
Anyone have a 3 bank drop target set from whirlwind, Radical, pool sharks, big guns? I just need 1 more set, including the opto board that comes on it, for a decent price ??
Radical (System 11C) has different boards to the one you've pictured that uses a single connector in the middle for both power and signalling:
pasted_image (resized).png
Space Station (System 11B) uses the same board as you've pictured (I think):
pasted_image (resized).png
Quoted from CoitusMysterioso:Good day folks.
Question is there a way to lower the default high scores on my F-14 Tomcat? I want my kids to be able to compete against each other and get excited about entering their initials but the default high scores start around 3,500,000 points and that's just not realistic for them at the moment.
Yes. Head into the settings, crank the backup highscores (Adjustment numbers 14, 15, 16, 17) way down (eg. click into manual/down, hold start until you get to 0 or something, then auto/up, adv to the next one), then reset the high scores.
I also usually turn OFF high score resets (adj 22 from memory).
See the manual for further details: http://mirror2.ipdb.org/files/804/Williams_1987_F_14_Tomcat_Full_Manual.pdf
edit: The same question is both here and the f-14 thread and I answered it in both, but slightly different posts. That's what's confused me.
2 months later
Quoted from rotordave:Most I’ve paid for a Sys11 was the very nice restored Pinbot I got off pinheadpierre up near Sacramento. That was $2700 I think. New PF, the works. I already had a Pinbot but this one was much much nicer. I sold mine which subsidised a lot of the new one.
They seem to go for more than that here:
$5k Mousin' Around: https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/west-croydon/miscellaneous-goods/-mousin-around-pinball-machine/1175380868
$3.5k Jokerz: https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/west-croydon/miscellaneous-goods/jokerz-pinball-machine/1172965846
Even this Millionaire project they're asking $1k + tax: https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/caroline-springs/collectables/millionaire-non-working-project-millionaire-pinball-machine/1184811817
1 week later
How low can you usually turn the volume on a System 11? I can turn Space Station almost off, but Radical never turns down very much and the pot seems scratchy. Is the pot failing?
1 month later
Quoted from desertT1:Cool, thanks. This game has a credit dot fairly often as well. When you check it, it says lock 3 switch, which gets touched every time a ball gets locked. I think we have cleared it out from time to time, but is this also normal?
System 11 will complain if it hasn't seen a switch activated for some time. So if you haven't hit the lock 3 switch for a few games and it complains, I wouldn't worry. If you are hitting that switch during play regularly, then it needs to be looked at.
eg. when I had a bunch of people over for a party, the next day one of my system 11s was complaining about the lock switches not being activated. Lots of games but no one could hit the lock shot.
Quoted from desertT1:Can a BR be bad and still test good? Pinwiki says that if either logic fuse in the power supply board blows, the BR is bad. Mine tests good, but both fuses die in power up.
Quoted from desertT1:I tested the BR and got .450ish numbers in diode test mode.
You should get open circuit with the probes one way and I'd expect something between .5 and .8 with the probes the other way around. There's 4 diodes in the bridge so you should be taking 8 separate readings.
eg.
Red | Black
----------------
AC1 | DC +
AC1 | DC -
AC2 | DC +
AC2 | DC -
DC +| AC1
DC +| AC2
DC - | AC1
DC - | AC2
If it test fine, I'd disconnect all the connectors to the MPU, sound, etc leaving only the connections to the transformer in the base of the cabinet and then power up. If it still blows those fuses, there's something wrong on the power board. Otherwise, you're looking elsewhere.
Quoted from desertT1:I unplugged everything from the MPU and powered up and the breakers did not blow. I started plugging things back in and 1J15, which is the smaller of two connectors that comes from 3J6, caused them to blow. I was half way done plugging things in, so I’m going to finish that and see if anything else blows. Once that is done I will see if 1J15 does it when that is the only thing plugged in, or if something else also has to be plugged in.
Do you mean 1J17?
Quoted from desertT1:Nope, 1J15, which was my error. What I had plugged into there belongs on the sound board. Once that was corrected and everything plugged in the game was happier.
One time it powered up and all segments were on. While researching that, the high voltage fuse blew. Didn’t know that, but the displays had gone out, so I power cycled it and no displays, but a “1” in the MPU meaning the U25 RAM wasn’t working. Turned it off to research the display, which is when I found the fuse. New fuse and MPU boots fine and the displays are back.
I have no idea why all segments were locked on, or why the U25 error was showing, but it is working now. Have to put some playfield parts back on before I can play it, but with 3 in the trough a game will start. Woot woot!
Excellent.
My Space Station occasionally does the same "all segments on" thing. I quickly flick it off, wait a bit, and turn it back on and it's fine. I realyl should track it down, but it's super intermittent. If you figure it out, PM me.
Actually, GRUMPY might recognise that symptom off the top of his head?
Quoted from GRUMPY:Have you changed C-30 yet?
Nope. I'll put it on the to do list?
Quoted from Houkaka:Hey all,
Just an announcement to let you all know that I plan on reproducing an improved spinning wheel (p/n 03-8161).
As you may know, this part is found in a few games:
#badcats
Cyclone
Diner
Jokerz!!
#riverboatgambler
I'll also be reproducing the blue shuttle ramp for Cyclone and other parts are planned as well for the future.
If you got any request for future reproduction parts for system 11 games let me know!
It could be a metal brackets, a molded part, etc.
If you can figure out an upper playfield for Space Station I'm sure there's people that would be keen.
2 weeks later
4 weeks later
Quoted from Tomass:Looking for some advice. I cleaned up this board as best as I could after removing all the corroded components. All the traces look good and meter out fine but the pads and some traces are darker than their surroundings. Is this something that is going to continue to degrade? Is there something I should do other than sucking the solder and replacing components / sockets?
[quoted image]
You're repairing alkaline damage from batteries? Here's Terry B's extensive guide: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/terrybs-guide-to-repairing-battery-damage
3 months later
Quoted from PinballManiac40:The original power supply creates the 5v from the 12v. I believe the Rottendog power board does as well. I would like to see a picture of the board to see if something burned. I cannot get to the schematic, so you may have to email Rottendog for help.
It's linked off their website isn't it? https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/846ba2_15de10e9decb43a6b5eb4ba275564747.pdf
2 weeks later
Quoted from rotordave:Would definitely be in my top 5 SYS11s ..
What are the other 4?
2 weeks later
Quoted from billsfanmd:Recrimping the IC conn for GI on riverboat gambler. The left side was toasty black. I’ve done lots of crimps with my tool. But this one needs the loop wires done. Anyone have a vid on doing a butt splice ?[quoted image]
I soldered additional pairs of wire to each strand and terminated in a trifurcon pin:
pasted_image (resized).png
Probably worth replacing the header on the interconnect board too, though it might be less toasty than the Radical I worked on was:
pasted_image (resized).png
Quoted from billsfanmd:Thx!
Pins getting redone
That’s exactly what I want to to do. How did you add wire to each strand ?
From memory I just did a normal join and solder:
pasted_image (resized).png
Except I stripped twice as much from one side so I could splice a second wire in, then covered the whole thing with heat shrink.
Quoted from billsfanmd:Not sure I follow. I thought you need to but splice about 2 inches up. Remove shielding and add 3” inch of wire to make a new wire to crimp ?
That could work. The machien I was in a) had alrready had some length removed from the wires, b) I didn't take the harness out of the cabinet so trying to take a section of insulation from the middle of a wire seemed far more difficult than just adding some additional length.
1 year later
Quoted from matt1999:What is recommended to power displays on a test bench? 110V for glass?
My memory is they run off 200VDC, supplied by +100DVC and -100VDC. Pinouts, etc, here: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#Master_Display_Driver_Board
Cross post from the Dr Dude thread:
Stripping down my playfield and found this... The gift of gab light hanging loose and shorting with the big shot mechanism. I wonder if this was the source of my blowing transistor...
Any guesses as to the issues this might cause?
2 weeks later
Jokers had an errata published about its soundboard. It's the only one to use that particular board from memory.
There's a copy on ipdb: https://www.ipdb.org/files/1308/Williams_1988_Jokerz_William_Service_Tip_For_Audio_Hum.pdf
Has that been done already?
11 months later
I've been trying to reassemble my Dr Dude, but I can't make sense of the speakers and the speaker panel. The wires between the speakers doesn't seem long enough for them to sit in their cutouts. Does anyone have a picture of the wiring in the speaker panel of a System 11c Bally with the speakers up top?
5 months later
Quoted from Phesson:A previous owner has attached a connector to the flipper ground and yes they are always active. Where does the original flipper ground attach?
There's a power wiring diagram in the manuals for system 11s that should tell you the connectors etc. Here's an example from Dr Dude:
pasted_image (resized).png
1 month later
Quoted from rotordave:First of all - get some 304 Stainless sheet.
[quoted image]
Then, spend an hour mocking it all up so it fits.
Mark it, cut it, file it, bend it, drill it … trial fit it …
[quoted image]
Then grind it some more, file it some more, then polish it up so it’s all nice and shiny.
Booooooya!! Another SYS11 winner!
rd
[quoted image][quoted image]
Thanks for sharing Dave. That gives me a great idea for fixing my Dr Dude. What material did you use for the protector?
1 year later
Quoted from Bohdi:Quickie question. Got a Police Force a few months, and the game was playing fine upon until a few weeks ago. Granted I don't play often, but, in the last few weeks, about every other game or so when I have just 1 ball in play and the other isn't locked yet, it will eject the other ball onto the shooter lane. Some games it's fine, sometimes it's not. Once or twice maybe, it's put both both balls into the shooter lane at the start of the game. Haven't really dug into yet, just thought I'd inquire here 1st. Never had a problem like this on a pin before.
I just dug through this on my Dr Dude. Turned out the diode on the first trough switch had broken, but the lead was still connected until it vibrated. Took and age to track down, but I'd start looking at the trough switches.
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