Is that factory? That cannot be factory. It makes no sense to be factory.

fgr (resized).jpg

If you do that you will bypass the flipper ground relay. This will result in the flippers always being active even when the game is in attract mode (game over).

FGR = flipper ground relay.

Schematic:

fgr1.jpg

Wiring diagram:

fgr2.jpg

Board:

fgr3.jpg

Remove the 2-pin connector with the orange wires from the "Z" connector/header. Plug the 2-pin connector into 1J19. Discard the other black wire and the ring terminal.

Here is the image from IPDB that shows the wiring. 1J19 has a 2-pin connector and a 7-pin connector that together occupy the 9 pins on the 1J19 header.

grand_lizard.jpg

There are three switches or buttons that are part of this circuit.

1. Cabinet button
2. EOS
3. Lane change

flipper_circuit.jpg

1. The cabinet button simply closes the path to ground. Assuming the flipper relay is energized then the path to ground is completed. This physical switch is not detected in any way.
2. The EOS is used to break current flow through the high power winding to the low power winding. This physical switch is not detected in any way.
3. The lane change switch is on the switch matrix and the only switch that is detected in any way. This switch will register in the switch test when closed. There are two 4N25 optocouplers (one for left and one for right) on the interconnect board that are where the switch "closure" happens.

You can verify the CPU board switch matrix detection circuitry by doing the test that rotordave describes. If the CPU board switch matrix circuitry is broken everything in the playfield wiring is irrelevant.

Once you verify that the CPU detects the switch closure correctly enter switch test and press the cabinet button. The flipper should energize and the switch should register in the test. If the switch does not register suspect the 4N25 optocoupler. You can test this with a DMM diode test.

Reference: https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11#4N25_Opto_Couplers_in_the_Switch_Matrix

Grumpy is always correct!

The trace is for 2J5-2.

01_front.jpg
02_rear.jpg
03_purpose.jpg

BLU-YEL is the voltage (power) supply for the right flippers.

Not sure if this thread is better than the Earthshaker thread but I figure I would start here.

I do not trust Williams manuals for some areas of information. Two areas where I have had problems are:

• Auxiliary Power board fuse values
• Interconnect board resistor values for R1-R12

Some of them are correct. Some of them are incorrect. I do not know which ones to trust. So I am asking machines owners for help.

For aux boards there is a label in the backbox of a machine that indicates the correct fuse values for the aux power board. This I trust.

For interconnect boards if you have a board that appears untouched I would appreciate knowing the values of R1-R12. Either as a list of numbers or images that show the values clearly. The reason I ask for "appears untouched" is because I have seen previous replacements of these resistors with incorrect parts (e.g. 4 Ohm instead of 3 Ohm) as operators used what was on hand and "close enough".

Feel free to post the information here to help others in the future or PM me if you don't feel comfortable doing that. All help is appreciated.

If anyone has the resistor value information for the Earthshaker interconnect board available more immediately this I would appreciate as I have someone who wants a board built but I don't trust the manuals so I cannot build the board without the information. Of course, I don't have an Earthshaker which is why I am asking.

<my opinion>

If you don't do this (abate / neutralize) the alkaline will likely creep anywhere that it can and the board will fail in the future. At that point in time it may not be possible to salvage the board.

Given what I see in your images there's a LOT of labor required to properly neutralize and repair that board. I stopped working on boards like that. Too much labor.

</my opinion>

There are plenty of minor errors in the Williams manuals. There are three particular areas in the (System 11) manuals where you should have doubt. The first is the fuses in the Auxiliary Power board, the second is the resistor values in the Interconnect board and the third is the location/count of flashers in the solenoid table.

I would always choose what's in the machine than what's in the manual (or schematic). The manuals and schematics were likely printed (in bulk) before actual production and some values may have changed during development and testing. That's why there is a piece of paper with the values in the backbox.

Can you do me a favor and post an image of the values on this piece of paper? I am trying to gather the values from actual machines - for the reasons outlined above. So far ... very little (if any) success.

Taxi interconnect board is D-12185. It is ONLY compatible with Swords of Fury and Taxi. It is NOT compatible with D-12313 that is used in every other System 11B/C game that has a standard interconnect board.

D-12185 is missing the 4N25 optocoupler circuits that detect the flipper cabinet buttons and the A/C relay.

A lot of the information is gleaned from the manuals. It can also be put together by pattern matching. It only works if the manuals are correct. There are a lot of errors and differences in the Williams manual versus what is on the boards or in the machine. The more information I have the better informed I will be to be able to provide guidance. I made a request for information (https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/system-11-club/page/71#post-6845912) but there was virtually no assistance. Less information = less likely I am to post on issues like this. More information = more likely I am to post on issue like this. It's that simple.

Back to your question ... all interconnect boards are "unique" in that the resistor values vary between machine. Some boards lack certain headers and jumpers as well. I don't want to sound like a broken record but see the previous paragraph. The interconnect board used in Swords of Fury and Taxi is particularly "unique" in that it lacks the 4N25 optocouplers (as mentioned in the previous post). This makes them "forward incompatible". The reverse is not true. The interconnect boards with the 4N25 optocouplers are "backward compatible". You may get errant switch closures in the game as the optocouplers will be operational. The problem with swapping interconnect boards is the different resistor values. Be careful with this.

Auxiliary Power Driver boards are also "unique" in that the fuse values differ. Same thing as before. I don't have the information for this for each game and I don't trust the Williams manuals. You can use the original version (with F2) or the revised version (with F2A and F2C) somewhat interchangeably. Just be aware of the differences before swapping stuff around to avoid potential problems.

gutz Thanks for the offer. Definitely interested in as much information as possible. Been busy with preparation for the local show in the Pacific Northwest.

There are two specific areas that I am looking at:

• The auxiliary power driver board fuse values.
• The interconnect board resistor values.

I spent some time looking at this stuff this morning trying to understand an issue that dmacy had with an Earthshaker. I think I have a much better idea of what and how but I am now looking for corroborating evidence for my reasoning.

Do as much as you want to. I know some of this stuff can be annoying and feel mundane. I will take whatever you want to give me.

• Image of the fuse label for the auxiliary power board in the backbox.
• Images of the resistor values (if visible) for the interconnect board.
• Physical verification of fuse values installed in the auxiliary power board and then listed here.
• Physical verification of resistor values installed in the interconnect board and then listed here.

It's important to note the original Williams stickers (both the white with black text and blue/white with black text). The game number is the most important thing here because operators swapped boards between machines and it is easy to find a board from a different game incorrectly installed in the machine.

As I mentioned above ... I'll take whatever you want to give me. If it's nothing because it's too much work then that's fine too. I don't absolutely need Whirlwind but ... if you provide information from yours that is different to mine then that's another mystery for me to follow up on.

<tl;dr>

To be pedantically detail oriented:

Inductive Loads:

• A diode is always required when an inductive load (solenoid) is driven by a solid state transistor.
• When current to the inductive load is interrupted the magnetic field collapses and generates a reverse voltage spike.
• The reverse voltage spike will damage the solid state transistor.
• The diode blocks this reverse voltage spike.

Williams Implementation:

• In System 11N and System 11A games (those without the Auxiliary Power board), the diode is located at the solenoid.
• In System 11B and System 11C games with the Auxiliary Power board, the diode is located on the Auxiliary Power board.
• When the diode is located at the solenoid, the wires must be connected to the appropriate lug. The supply wire is connected to the lug that is the BANDED (cathode) end of the diode. The drive wire is connected to the lug that is the non-banded (anode) end of the diode.
• When there is no diode at the solenoid, the wires can be connected to either lug as it does not matter (because there is no diode).
• You can still install a diode at the solenoid with the presence of the Auxiliary Power board, but you must wire it using the rule above (supply wire to banded and drive wire to non-banded).

The rule here is that if a machine has the Auxiliary Power board you do not need a diode at the solenoid. If the machine does not have the Auxiliary Power board you need a diode at the solenoid.

When the diode is properly connected, it prevents current from flowing through it and forces the current through the solenoid winding. The winding has resistance and generates the magnetic field. When the diode is incorrectly connected (supply wire to non-banded and drive wire to banded), this is a short circuit across the solenoid winding. There is no resistance to the current flow. This causes a LOT of current to flow instantly and this causes the fuse to blow.

</tl;dr>

Those electrolytic capacitors are used in +12V, +5V and -12V circuits. In general, it is a good practice use a capacitor with a voltage rating at least twice the circuit rating. So a 25V meets the 2x criteria. Use one with 3x the rating (35V) for even better safety. The -12V and +12V circuits are unregulated so they are often a little higher than their nominal specification.

The OEM board lead spacing is 5.0mm. If you're looking for a 100% compatible part with the correct spacing then look for one with 5.0mm lead spacing. Most 25V or 35V capacitors nowadays will be manufactured with a 2.5mm lead spacing. You can stretch out the leads to fit the 5.0mm lead spacing.

It's somewhat similar to Americans vs Canadians. The casual "eh" is something that comes to mind.

From my observations:

• When in the North American continent, Americans and Canadians have some form of rivalry.
• When outside the North American continent, you may find that Americans and Canadians have some form of camaraderie.
• When in the Oceania region, Australians and New Zealanders have some form of rivalry.
• When outside the Oceania region, Australians and New Zealanders can be the best of friends.

I guess familiarity breeds contempt. If you want to get Australians and New Zealanders really started (when it comes to sporting events) then ask them about Rugby (Union) or Cricket.

SWI = software interrupt. This is a standard 6800 processor instruction.
WVM (presumably) = Williams virtual machine.

Be careful here. The term "virtual machine" is overloaded.

<disclaimer>The following is my understanding. I have no experience with the modern implementation of virtual machines. I also have no experience with the Williams System 3-11 software other than an occasional glance at the initialization code. The guts of the code is complicated.</disclaimer>

In the early days of computing (software), a virtual machine was typically an instruction set architecture (ISA) that did not physically exist. The "instructions" were executed by software. Think Java Virtual Machine. There is no actual processor (hardware) that executes the JVM opcodes. Another example of this meaning of virtual machine is the UCSD Pascal bytecode (aka pcode). Another more modern example is Microsoft's CLR managed runtime. Java and the CLR are good examples of "write once and debug everywhere". Typically these virtual machines are interpreted on an instruction by instruction basis but more modern virtual machines compile the intermediate (bytecode) to native instructions either on demand (JIT = just in time) or pre-compiled (at software installation).

The more modern usage of the term "virtual machine" is used to describe a hardware implementation that separates physical memory layout and provides boundaries to allow multiple separate instances of different operating systems to execute on a single hardware computing device. A crude example of this is if you have 32GB of physical memory, you can allocate 16GB to one "virtual machine" and 16GB to another "virtual machine". This allows you to run a Windows operating system concurrently with a Linux operating system. They are two separate entities and can share the hardware available on the machine. The arbiter of the hardware is typically a "hypervisor". Often these operating systems have virtual device drivers that communicate with the actual hardware device driver. The hypervisor programs the memory management of the processor so that it strictly adheres to the compartmentalization required for security reasons. In Intel parlance, user code executes at ring 3, supervisor code executes at ring 0 and hypervisor code executes at ring -1.

Back to your question. The WVM is a bytecode interpreter. These interpreters usually execute bytecode until an "escape" code is encountered. These opcodes cause the bytecode to return back to the native code. Presumably this IVM executes a single bytecode and then returns to native code rather than require an escape code. Normally, these interpreters are entered with a "call" or "jsr" instruction. These are often two or three byte opcodes. It is possible to reduce this by using the SWI vector. The SWI instruction is a single byte. This can save one or two bytes when entering the bytecode interpreter. Apple used this mechanism in their old MacOS operating systems with the A-traps. Microsoft used a similar scheme with "INT 2E". These instructions generate an interrupt (SWI = software interrupt) and the processor will divert execution to a defined vector. The code at this vector executes the required task. Typically, it generates a trap frame (context), executes what it needs to and then restores the context from the trap frame. In simpler processors, this is typically the RTI (return from interrupt) instruction.

s11_cpu_board.jpg

measuring_in_circuit.jpg

Measuring between yellow points? You are also measuring between the red points since there is a common point connected (as shown in magenta).

These things are almost never at fault. The more likely component at fault (the path you are actually measuring showing the difference) is the RED path.

DMM measurements are static measurements. These can show you obvious failures (without power applied). If the DMM measurements produce correct results (and you are still experiencing a failure) then you need to do functional measurements. This is the realm of logic probes (and oscilloscopes). I don't know your experience level. If you have a logic probe then bust it out. If you don't have a logic probe then you can purchase and learn how to use one if you're interested. Otherwise, if you're not interested in learning then I think you should send that board out for repair.

Someone else may have a differing opinion or path forward. There are many ways to approach problems. If you're adventurous and like to shotgun then you could remove the presumed faulty IC and replace it. I would not recommend doing that without having at least some evidence there is a fault. Any desoldering tool or soldering iron to a board is a risk that can cause further damage to the board (i.e. you are making the problem worse) and is especially so with a big 40-pin IC.

That doesn't mean anything. You can stick a Leon in a board and it will execute regardless of the state (functionality) of the PIAs. Before a board can be deemed "pass" with a Leon, all and I mean ALL the ports of the installed PIAs must be verified with a logic probe for the alternating tone/pulse. If this verification is not done with the Leon then you may as well put a game ROM in the board and run the diagnostic tests in a machine.

On a side (unrelated) note, I (finally) built a small board that has test software that will exercise both PortA and PortB as input and output of a PIA. It will also test control ports 1 for input and ports 2 for output. If a 6821 passes this test then it will work properly in a board.

I never recommend the shotgun approach. It is relatively harmless (and definitely NON-invasive) to put the logic probe on any suspected signals before heating up the desoldering tool and soldering iron. I have seen enough "introduced" damage from people acting before thinking (measure twice - or more - cut once). Again, I don't know your experience level but removing a 40-pin IC (in a non-destructive manner) still scares me.

I try to avoid post explicit solutions. I prefer to nudge and hint and have the reader draw their own conclusions. This is akin to teaching how to fish rather than giving fish. If you want fish then I am sure that someone else on the forum will happily give it to you.

I also almost never recommend "reflowing" solder. Whatever that means. I think to most people it means putting so much solder into a joint that it forms a "Mount Everest" at the joint. Either that, or it means burying the old solder inside the joint with new solder on top of it (forming a "Mount Everest").

Take care when reading schematics and identifying component references. There is a reason why procedure in the operating room is to count the number of packages opened and the number of gauzes taken out so that the counts match when the patient is closed. It's also the reason why there is double checking of which limb is to be amputated before actually amputating the limb. Don't think it hasn't happened before. The left limb was removed whereas the procedure listed is for the right limb.

"Doesn’t it have to be either src2 or u42?" I hope you only fat-fingered the keyboard rather than misread the schematic.

s11_segment_g.jpg

The color of the LED on your logic probe doesn't indicate (to me) whether the state is low or high. The color will depend on the manufacturer and model of the logic probe that you are using. You should specify if the signal stuck low or high rather than the LED color.

All segment should be pulsing (alternating low/high) when the display is operating (software is driving the display). This means that all the PA0-PA7 and PB0-PB7 pins of the ports should be pulsing. You can confirm the correct state by applying the lead of the logic probe to segments that are working. Don't forget you can use the "normal" case to identify "abnormal" behavior by observing a difference between identical circuits. You have a control, so use it.

A stuck low signal in an inverting display (11B double and later) should cause the segment to be locked on. If the signal is high the segment should never illuminate. The CD4049 is a CMOS inverting buffer.

Reference:

s11_u41_pb5-pb7.jpg

• U41-15 (PB5) continuous with SRC2-7 continuous with 1J22-24
• U41-16 (PB6) continuous with SRC2-8 continuous with 1J22-25
• U41-17 (PB7) continuous with SRC2-9 continuous with 1J22-26

Continuity implies that the signal is the same for all points that are continuous.

You report:

• SRC-7 = HIGH and 1J22-24 = unreported
• SRC-8 = LOW and 1J22-25 = HIGH
• SRC-9 = LOW and 1J22-26 = LOW

This implies a break in continuity between the two points (or you are not measuring correctly).

Just to confirm:

• Those are stuck (fixed) signals that are different to the other signals that are pulsing.
• You are testing with game software and only 1J17 (logic power) is connected.

You want to disconnect as much as you can from the board to reduce potential interference.

It makes no sense to me that 1J22-24 is pulsing when the origin of the signal U14-15 is stuck HIGH. 1J22-24 is driven by the PB5 signal. It can't spontaneously pulse (in isolation).

If you're familiar with the Leon software, I think this would be a good time to use it. In all honesty, what you've reported doesn't make much (logic) electrical sense. Someone else may be able to interpret it better than me since my experience is limited to understanding expected signals based on a schematic.

I assume it should read "u41-15 pulse, src2-7 hi, ij22-24 pulse".

You didn't confirm that the other pins/points are all pulsing as expected. Is this true?

That still doesn't make sense. All points that are continuous should read the same. That's the definition of electrical continuity.

The above statement implies that you may not have continuity although it still doesn't make sense that the signal changes across the SRC. You should measure continuity between all the points to verify it is present.

• U41-15 to SRC-7.
• SRC-7 to 1J22-24.

...

• U41-17 to SRC-9.
• SRC-9 to 1J22-26.

Something is not adding up because even if there is a failure, the state of the reported failure is not consistent. It's possible there are multiple failures but there's usually only a single failure that masks subsequent failures.

That's evidence that there is a (likely) problem with U41. The (active) signal originates here at U41-16. The other two points on the chain (SRC-8 and 1J22-25) are passive. They don't drive the signal. The most important thing is to have consistency between reported results and expected results regardless of whether the signal is normal or abnormal. Inconsistency indicates a fundamental (continuity) problem.

If you want definitive proof then use the Leon software and test the PIA (in circuit). If there is no signal at the origin then you won't have a signal at the other points (since they are continuous with each other).

The only other thing would be to see images of the board focused around the battery holder area including 1J22, the SRCs and U41/U42. There could be alkaline corrosion here. Alkaline corrosion is the number cause for display issues since U41 drives all the segments in the top (left) display.

Board looks clean (no alkaline). Someone has replaced U42 in the past.

I would categorize the current diagnostic state (using the information provided in this thread) as "preponderance of evidence" rather than "beyond reasonable doubt".

Your tolerance level (where your "proof" bar is) will dictate whether you want to gather more evidence or proceed.

If you take the advice, follow the instructions and report the results then I will go as far as necessary or you reach the extent of my knowledge / experience.

What's important is that the exchange is documented so that other readers can read the information and potentially learn something for themselves as well.

Flippers in this machine are pretty simple. Look for something in this diagram that explains the symptoms that you are reporting.

whirlwind_flipper_wiring_diagram.jpg

Solder bridges aren't the only thing. You need to check continuity between the bus signals and other signals (~CE).

I have built > 100 (probably closer to 200) NVRAMs and I have had only one that appeared to have a problem. I would almost never bet on a bad NVRAM. I would always bet on "you broke continuity in a bus signal". Damaged through holes and traces are, by far, MUCH more common than anything else. Check continuity for all the signals coming into and out of U25. In BOTH DIRECTIONS (and sides) of the pads.

C30 is not likely to be related. If you're concerned about C30 then use a logic probe to check the ~RESET signal. That capacitor is involved in the reset circuit. Unlikely to be the cause.

For those reading along at home, there is a convention on the schematic. It took me a while to understand what is going on but once you get it, it makes sense. Signals may be named (a symbol). If there is a horizontal bar over the symbol it should be considered "inverted". I put the inverted in inverted (no pun intended) commas. The horizontal bar cannot be represented in plain text. To represent this, a "/" or "~" is placed before the symbol to indicate the inverted meaning.

Now back to the "inverted" and what it means.

If you look at the schematic, you will see that pins 3 and 7 output from the 555 are labeled with the symbol "~BLANKING". This means that it is ACTIVE LOW. Translation, if the signal is low (0V) then it is active - i.e. BLANKING is active. Under normal operation, BLANKING is not active so the ~BLANKING signal is high (5V).

The ~BLANKING signal is an input to U55-1 (7406) and the output U55-2 is an open collector to the blanking LED (LED3). When ~BLANKING at U55-1 is high then U55-2 is low and sinking current. It sinks the current of the blanking LED and the LED is illuminated. You can also see that the output from U55-2 is labeled BLANKING (not ~BLANKING) and is active high. The signal is continued at 4B4.

If you follow the symbol at 4B4, you will see that it leaves the board at 1J21-2 and 1J22-2 as BLANKING (active high). Active high means that the system is "blanked" when this signal is 5V. You mention that the signal is 0V on the display board so this means that BLANKING is not active - i.e. the system is running.

The lesson is to note carefully whether the symbol is BLANKING or ~BLANKING.

If configured for Riverboat Gambler the bottom 16AN should only be digits (16N). The upper 16AN is driven by segments a-r so check these signals are coming off the CPU board properly. It is unlikely that all 16 signals are bad. It is more likely that you have a problem on the display board itself. If the bottom 16N works then power is probably good. Focus on the schematic drawing that covers the upper 16AN. Power is the most likely cause to take out all of the segments at the same time. Assuming the glass is good. It is possible the glass is just bad.