(Topic ID: 43458)

System 11 Club !

By mof

11 years ago


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  • Latest reply 4 days ago by JeffZee
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There are 4,608 posts in this topic. You are on page 92 of 93.
#4551 53 days ago
Quoted from rotordave:

You can download most manual stuff free from IPDB.
rd

Off topic but congrats on Motörhead RD, really incredible work!

#4552 53 days ago

Pinwiki just links you to planetary.

On planetary the manuals don't seem to be printable. And they're not on IPDB as Roto suggested.

#4553 52 days ago
Quoted from chipleader:

You can find the parts diagrams here, Williams/Bally Parts Manuals
https://www.planetarypinball.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=PP&Screen=BOOK

Edit: The catalogs are actually on PinWiki. I must've missed it. For each one, you'll see two links; one to the PPR online viewer thing and one to the PDF, which you can download. It's OCR'd and everything.

https://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_WPC#Parts_Catalogs

#4554 52 days ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Man. Just rebuilt pinbot slings.
The plunger assembly’s link (blue piece) seems just a hair too fat, so it impedes movement where it attaches to the kicker arm! Same part number I replaced it with, so I know it’s correct.
I dabbed a little wd40 on it, and am trying to move it a bunch to workk it in. Hoping that helps.
Anyone run into this?

Take it apart and clean the WD40 off. Eventually the WD40 will gum up and lock that thing down. Sand the link down until it fits, but swings loose and is friction free. Put a drop of oil on the pivot shaft and reassemble and you're good to go.

#4555 51 days ago
Quoted from interconnect:

Take it apart and clean the WD40 off. Eventually the WD40 will gum up and lock that thing down. Sand the link down until it fits, but swings loose and is friction free. Put a drop of oil on the pivot shaft and reassemble and you're good to go,

Sand down with maybe sand paper? (maybe a dumb question)

#4556 51 days ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Sand down with maybe sand paper? (maybe a dumb question)

Yes; sand paper. I had the same issue on one of my games. Vid has a really good write-up that will guide you along on how to rebuild these. See this post:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-hardtop-restoration-comet/page/2#post-4484021

Is that what yours looks like, with the blue linkage? This was for a Comet, which is System 9, but may be the same for Pinbot, which is System 11.

#4557 51 days ago
Quoted from interconnect:

Yes, I had the same issue on one of my games. Vid has a really good write-up that will guide you along on how to rebuild these. See this post:
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/vids-guide-hardtop-restoration-comet/page/2#post-4484021
Is that what yours looks like, with the blue linkage? This was for a Comet, which is System 9, but may be the same for Pinbot, which is System 11.

Yes, it's a blue link. Its just a tad too thick in width, so that when you attach it to the armature kicker, using the washer and cotter pin, it's too tight. I did debate sanding..

EDIT: YES, vids link is spot on to what my issue is. THANK YOU!

#4558 51 days ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Pinwiki just links you to planetary.
On planetary the manuals don't seem to be printable. And they're not on IPDB as Roto suggested.

negative Ghost Rider, the actual downloads are on PinWiki along with the online Planetary viewing link

#4559 51 days ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Yes, it's a blue link. Its just a tad too thick in width, so that when you attach it to the armature kicker, using the washer and cotter pin, it's too tight. I did debate sanding..
EDIT: YES, vids link is spot on to what my issue is. THANK YOU!

Yep, that's exactly the same issue I had. Vid's tutorial thing should do the trick.

1 week later
#4560 44 days ago

How can I test the output voltages on a PinBot power supply? Replacement power supplies have test points on the board itself that you can check with a multimeter. I am rebuilding an original power supply and want to test the voltages before I connect it to the other boards in the machine.

#4561 44 days ago
Quoted from alexorear:

How can I test the output voltages on a PinBot power supply? Replacement power supplies have test points on the board itself that you can check with a multimeter. I am rebuilding an original power supply and want to test the voltages before I connect it to the other boards in the machine.

Disconnect all connectors but the square ones at J1 and J2.
Put an empty Molex housing over the pins at J5 and J6.
That is to avoid shorting between pins when using a multimeter to check the voltages.
Turn the games on.
The game will remain dark (no lights lit) because all connectors are disconnected.
Connect one lead (black) to the ground of the cabint (assuming the board is in the game).
Put the other lead (red) at each pin in the Molex housing for checking the voltages.
That way you can check all the voltages regulated by the power supply.
Turn the game off and reconnect everything if the voltages are correct.

Peter

#4562 44 days ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

Disconnect all connectors but the square ones at J1 and J2.
Put an empty Molex housing over the pins at J5 and J6.
That is to avoid shorting between pins when using a multimeter to check the voltages.
Turn the games on.
The game will remain dark (no lights lit) because all connectors are disconnected.
Connect one lead (black) to the ground of the cabint (assuming the board is in the game).
Put the other lead (red) at each pin in the Molex housing for checking the voltages.
That way you can check all the voltages regulated by the power supply.
Turn the game off and reconnect everything if the voltages are correct.
Peter

This is very helpful, thank you.

#4563 44 days ago

Had the privilege to bring home a really nice BK2K recently. Have missed having this sine I sold my last one.

IMG_0266 (resized).jpegIMG_0266 (resized).jpegIMG_0267 (resized).jpegIMG_0267 (resized).jpegIMG_0268 (resized).jpegIMG_0268 (resized).jpegIMG_0269 (resized).jpegIMG_0269 (resized).jpegIMG_0270 (resized).jpegIMG_0270 (resized).jpeg
#4564 44 days ago

Does anyone know which cabinets are interchangeable with Taxi and/or Whirlwind?

#4565 44 days ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

Does anyone know which cabinets are interchangeable with Taxi and/or Whirlwind?

High speed, GL, Road Kings,and Pinbot are the same

Millionaire-Jokerz is the same

Earthshaker-BBBB are the same (not accounting for Bally vs Williams backbox heads)

#4566 44 days ago
Quoted from Jmckune:

High speed, GL, Road Kings,and Pinbot are the same
Millionaire-Jokerz is the same
Earthshaker-BBBB are the same (not accounting for Bally vs Williams backbox heads)

Thanks, my plan was to find a cabinet to restore for Taxi, then restore the old Taxi cabinet for Whirlwind. Looks like they are going to be different though.

#4567 41 days ago

Okay so here's a long shot and a good discussion point: the Plastic Grand Lizard Heads

It seems like everybody and their cousin wants a new one of these (myself included) but seemingly nobody has reproduced them ever. Is there any reason for something like this? Seems like there should be someone out there who has some equipment that can make an approximation of the head and then we could all either get ones printed or have someone re-manufacture them and pain them ourselves?

Not trying to make it sound over simplified, I'm just kind of curious if anybody's taken a stab at making a reproduction.

#4568 41 days ago

How big is it, like how wide/tall/deep in inches?

Quoted from radial_head:Okay so here's a long shot and a good discussion point: the Plastic Grand Lizard Heads
It seems like everybody and their cousin wants a new one of these (myself included) but seemingly nobody has reproduced them ever. Is there any reason for something like this? Seems like there should be someone out there who has some equipment that can make an approximation of the head and then we could all either get ones printed or have someone re-manufacture them and pain them ourselves?
Not trying to make it sound over simplified, I'm just kind of curious if anybody's taken a stab at making a reproduction.

#4569 41 days ago

Working on building the wiring harness for my PinBot project. I'm looking at connectors and insertion tools but I don't know which to get.

Is this the correct 9 pin connector? Does anyone know if they come with a key? https://www.pinballlife.com/156-396mm-idc-9-position-connector-for-22-gauge-wire.html

Anyone ever use one of these insertion tools? https://www.pinballlife.com/idc-punch-tool-for-pancon-0156-396mm-connectors.html

If I'm completely off base can someone point me in the right direction. I appreciate any help or advice.

#4570 41 days ago

Connectors usually do not come with the key pin. Assume it does not.

Is there a particular reason you want to use IDC instead of changing to the crimp on type? The tool pictured does work, but it's not as good as the spring loaded tools that this connector would have originally been punched down with (they use a machine to do that; the prototype tool which is what you would use to punch down idc by hand is in the hundreds of dollars - the tool that PBL sells is a non-spring loaded version so you're providing the force that the spring provides which is why results will vary)

#4571 41 days ago
Quoted from radial_head:

Okay so here's a long shot and a good discussion point: the Plastic Grand Lizard Heads
It seems like everybody and their cousin wants a new one of these (myself included) but seemingly nobody has reproduced them ever. Is there any reason for something like this? Seems like there should be someone out there who has some equipment that can make an approximation of the head and then we could all either get ones printed or have someone re-manufacture them and pain them ourselves?
Not trying to make it sound over simplified, I'm just kind of curious if anybody's taken a stab at making a reproduction.

The problem is that they are painted most likely and not just a clear or one color part. You can somewhat easily (If you have experience) vacuum form the part from petg. The time consuming part is the painting.

#4572 41 days ago
Quoted from slochar:

Connectors usually do not come with the key pin. Assume it does not.
Is there a particular reason you want to use IDC instead of changing to the crimp on type? The tool pictured does work, but it's not as good as the spring loaded tools that this connector would have originally been punched down with (they use a machine to do that; the prototype tool which is what you would use to punch down idc by hand is in the hundreds of dollars - the tool that PBL sells is a non-spring loaded version so you're providing the force that the spring provides which is why results will vary)

Main reason for IDC connectors is because lots of connectors have wires that loop to 2 connectors . Using a crimp on connector would mean I'd have to slice and Y the wire. The original connectors are IDC connectors so why not use what they used at the factory?

#4573 41 days ago
Quoted from alexorear:

Main reason for IDC connectors is because lots of connectors have wires that loop to 2 connectors . Using a crimp on connector would mean I'd have to slice and Y the wire. The original connectors are IDC connectors so why not use what they used at the factory?

I do all the time except for the high voltage (GI) powered ones.

#4574 41 days ago
Quoted from alexorear:

The original connectors are IDC connectors so why not use what they used at the factory?

Because the factory had the proper equipment to crimp them. IDC connectors with the manual insertion are ok for one or 2, if they have to be redone. You might/probably will get really good at putting them in, but the reason the factory used them is because of speed of assembly, not long term reliability.

If you're building a new harness (Are you missing it or something?) might as well go with the really reliable crimp ons.... yes, the Y splicing will be a PITA, and I guess you're of the camp that says never crimp two wires into one pin (not rehashing that debate) - but no matter how you do it, it's going to be a lot of very intense high attention to detail work.

It also depends on your cirmping tool and skill in doing it - some people just can't get good crimps I'm not sure why, but it's a pretty important thing to get right.

(side note, one place where IDC seems to rule is in telephone/network wiring - it's almost ALL done with IDC type connecitons. Even rj45 network jacks in a panel are IDC on the other side, and millions of ribbon cables are all IDC as well, all built with tooling that gives the same force, the same way, every time. The fudge factor is higher for crimp vs. idc)

#4575 41 days ago

Yeah, you want the Trifurcon ones. I believe Pinball Life calls them "Crimp-N-Stuff" or something like that. That's what I use. You can squeeze two wires in there for the ones that have the extra loop on them; it's tight, but it can be done.

#4576 41 days ago
Quoted from interconnect:

Yeah, you want the Trifurcon ones. I believe Pinball Life calls them "Crimp-N-Stuff" or something like that. That's what I use. You can squeeze two wires in there for the ones that have the extra loop on them; it's tight, but it can be done.

I think his concern is more about the single wire looping to separate connectors rather than the double stuffed. Y splicing is fine, just takes a bit more work. Sounds like he was sold a project game that was pieced together leftovers from prior build outs.

#4577 41 days ago
Quoted from justler:

The problem is that they are painted most likely and not just a clear or one color part. You can somewhat easily (If you have experience) vacuum form the part from petg. The time consuming part is the painting.

I'm going to guess based on how many people try to do touchups willy nilly, crappy modifications, switch covers, blah blah blah, that people would be up to paint their own if they were given the chance to have a bare copy. Hell, I'm sure there's people out there who could sketch up a 3d printed model quicker than room temp butter melting on toast.

People who paint those tiny models for role playing games would kill for an opportunity to custom paint stuff like this.

I guess I'll start reaching out to people who do the vacuum forming things.

#4578 41 days ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

I think his concern is more about the single wire looping to separate connectors rather than the double stuffed. Y splicing is fine, just takes a bit more work. Sounds like he was sold a project game that was pieced together leftovers from prior build outs.

Oh ok, gotcha. I don't think I've seen that before; wiring looping off to another connector like that. Interesting.

#4579 40 days ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

I think his concern is more about the single wire looping to separate connectors rather than the double stuffed. Y splicing is fine, just takes a bit more work. Sounds like he was sold a project game that was pieced together leftovers from prior build outs.

I got a project game that came with 3 partial back box harnesses, all for system 9 not system 11. I have most of the wiring but it needs repining to work on a system 11 game. I am missing the solenoid section of the harness that goes from the MPU to the playfield connector. Also missing the harness that goes from the MPU to the displays. I can get the correct color coded wiring, I just wasn't sure which size connectors to get and if it's worth getting an insertion tool.

#4580 40 days ago
Quoted from alexorear:

I got a project game that came with 3 partial back box harnesses, all for system 9 not system 11. I have most of the wiring but it needs repining to work on a system 11 game. I am missing the solenoid section of the harness that goes from the MPU to the playfield connector. Also missing the harness that goes from the MPU to the displays. I can get the correct color coded wiring, I just wasn't sure which size connectors to get and if it's worth getting an insertion tool.

Jeez, what a nightmare. Hopefully the seller was at least forthcoming about these issues. I will echo what others have said and recommend molex trifurcons, they should mostly be .156s but might as well order some .100s while you’re at it. I use the iwiss ratcheting two stage crimpers but I’ve seen guys much more skilled than I knock them out super quick using the old Waldoms.

#4581 40 days ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

Jeez, what a nightmare. Hopefully the seller was at least forthcoming about these issues. I will echo what others have said and recommend molex trifurcons, they should mostly be .156s but might as well order some .100s while you’re at it. I use the iwiss ratcheting two stage crimpers but I’ve seen guys much more skilled than I knock them out super quick using the old Waldoms.

Yeah I kinda knew what I was getting into. Supposedly the guy originally had 3 PinBots and this was the left over parts. Cosmetically it's better than a lot I've seen. I got a bunch of new stuff like plastics with it, extra non broken vortex ramp ect. The price was good, but didn't know I was going to be redoing all this wiring. Luckily the manual for the game is super detailed as far as the schematics and wiring are concerned. Just trying to rebuild a section at a time, starting with the wiring from the transformer to the power supply and flipper board. Added rectifiers already. Gonna be a slow moving project but I think worth it. Bit of a learning curve for me though as I've only ever owned EMs and new Spooky games.

#4582 40 days ago

Last question (for a while), what gauge is the wiring running from the MPU to the playfield, specifically connectors 1J12 and 1J12 (solenoids). Is it 22awg or 18awg?

#4583 39 days ago
Quoted from alexorear:

Last question (for a while), what gauge is the wiring running from the MPU to the playfield, specifically connectors 1J12 and 1J12 (solenoids). Is it 22awg or 18awg?

Any wire carrying voltage (solenoid power for example) will be 18AWG. Switch and lamp matrix wires will be 22 AWG

1 week later
#4584 29 days ago

I am new to Sys11s and looking for some advice on testing numeric displays. I have picked up a Grand Lizard and neither of the numeric displays (Player3 and player 4 ) work.

It could be both the numeric displays don't work or (I hope) something on the board.

I have tested the ribbon cables (swapped the cable from Player 4 with Credit/Match cable and Credit/Match still works, player 4 doesn't.

I have the same voltages at pins 2 &12 on the displays not working as the working alphanumeric displays.

I have access to a Data East display board of the same generation, so if I need to I can probably replace the glass with the DE ones, but I would like to be sure that is the real problem before I go through all that desoldering and resoldering.

If there was a problem with one of the 6118 or 7180 chips on the board could that affect both numeric displays? Or if there was a faulty cable to Player 3, would that take out player 4 as well ?

Thanks for any tips. And let me know if it is better to start a dedicated thread for this type of query , or is it best to post here .

John

#4585 29 days ago

You can test the Individual Display glasses for outgasing with a 'plasma ball lamp'
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/testing-displays-with-a-plasma-ball

#4586 29 days ago

The data east Display might even be compatible with the B/W one-at least the LED ones are usually

#4587 28 days ago
Quoted from jaybeedee:

I am new to Sys11s and looking for some advice on testing numeric displays. I have picked up a Grand Lizard and neither of the numeric displays (Player3 and player 4 ) work.
It could be both the numeric displays don't work or (I hope) something on the board.
I have tested the ribbon cables (swapped the cable from Player 4 with Credit/Match cable and Credit/Match still works, player 4 doesn't.
I have the same voltages at pins 2 &12 on the displays not working as the working alphanumeric displays.
I have access to a Data East display board of the same generation, so if I need to I can probably replace the glass with the DE ones, but I would like to be sure that is the real problem before I go through all that desoldering and resoldering.
If there was a problem with one of the 6118 or 7180 chips on the board could that affect both numeric displays? Or if there was a faulty cable to Player 3, would that take out player 4 as well ?
Thanks for any tips. And let me know if it is better to start a dedicated thread for this type of query , or is it best to post here .
John

Swap the non-working display with a working display.
Then you know if it is the glass or the master driver board.

#4588 28 days ago

Been dealing with a glitched sound issue on a highspeed for awhile and just recently got a working f14.
I just tried swapping the f14 mpu into high speed after adding the 1J15 header and swapping roms and I am getting absolutely no sound now. Is there any other modifications that need to be done to make a f14 mpu work on a highspeed? It boots just no sound now

#4589 28 days ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

Had the privilege to bring home a really nice BK2K recently. Have missed having this sine I sold my last one. [quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Nice.!
I just got my bk2k back after nearly two years on loan!
I'd love to know how it plays with lightning flippers, they look to be aligned far too high unless that's a trade off to make it play correctly with them?

I'm always looking for ways to make bk2k more challenging by stopping the holding the right flipper up and catching the ball strat.

#4590 28 days ago
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

Nice.!
I just got my bk2k back after nearly two years on loan!
I'd love to know how it plays with lightning flippers, they look to be aligned far too high unless that's a trade off to make it play correctly with them?
I'm always looking for ways to make bk2k more challenging by stopping the holding the right flipper up and catching the ball strat.

Take off the wireform at the front of the upper playfield.

Works a treat!

rd

#4591 28 days ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Take off the wireform at the front of the upper playfield.
Works a treat!
rd

IMG_7617 (resized).jpegIMG_7617 (resized).jpeg

And I can report that I will likely never put it back on again. Makes the game worth playing.

rd

#4592 28 days ago
Quoted from rotordave:

[quoted image]
And I can report that I will likely never put it back on again. Makes the game worth playing.
rd

I can't believe I've ever thought of this !
Isn't there a risk of the big drop damaging the playfield over time?

I'm going to try it later today

#4593 28 days ago

I’d be too nervous of the drop damage.

#4594 28 days ago

My opinion :

In standard form it drops off the playfield in pretty much the same place 1000s of times.

So can’t see an issue.

I haven’t noticed any damage on my game.

YMMV etc etc.

Put it this way, I was going to sell my BK2000 because nobody ever played it and we couldn’t use it in tournaments because games could go on for an hour.

Now we can use it. So it’s not for sale any more.

rd

#4595 28 days ago

Bk2k is a masterpiece.

#4596 28 days ago

I love bk2k but I would love the rules to be tweaked and balanced slightly to make the old "trap up, then back up top" not the dominant strategy.

I have tried making the right sling super sensitive and angling the wireform so a catch as to be perfect or the ball bounces and touches the sling. But you can easily suss the catch out

#4597 28 days ago

I like the bottom pf. I feel that double knights challenge is the key to high scores.
Then again, once activated, it’s back to the top.

#4598 28 days ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

like the bottom pf. I feel that double knights challenge is the key to high scores.

Well … it’s a tactic, for sure!

Unfortunately when you can just get WAR hurry ups all day long with no risk at all, why would you do anything else?

rd

#4599 28 days ago

Put lightning flippers in your BK2K. Makes it much more challenging in my opinion.

#4600 28 days ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Well … it’s a tactic, for sure!
Unfortunately when you can just get WAR hurry ups all day long with no risk at all, why would you do anything else?
rd

Double Knights gives you millions!

One thing i love about this game is the different ways to go after points.

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