(Topic ID: 43458)

System 11 Club !

By mof

11 years ago


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There are 4,647 posts in this topic. You are on page 88 of 93.
#4351 9 months ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

Here is a picture of that area of the board.

Board looks clean (no alkaline). Someone has replaced U42 in the past.

Quoted from sullivcd40:

I think U41 needs to be replaced unfortunately.

I would categorize the current diagnostic state (using the information provided in this thread) as "preponderance of evidence" rather than "beyond reasonable doubt".

Your tolerance level (where your "proof" bar is) will dictate whether you want to gather more evidence or proceed.

#4352 9 months ago
Quoted from DumbAss:

Board looks clean (no alkaline). Someone has replaced U42 in the past.

I would categorize the current diagnostic state (using the information provided in this thread) as "preponderance of evidence" rather than "beyond reasonable doubt".
Your tolerance level (where your "proof" bar is) will dictate whether you want to gather more evidence or proceed.

It’s going to get sent off at this point so that will be the end of it for me. Thank you for hanging with me through this, I have learned a ton.

13
#4353 9 months ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

Thank you for hanging with me through this, I have learned a ton.

If you take the advice, follow the instructions and report the results then I will go as far as necessary or you reach the extent of my knowledge / experience.

What's important is that the exchange is documented so that other readers can read the information and potentially learn something for themselves as well.

#4354 9 months ago

Curious what you guys think is the most difficult system 11? I guess difficulty in getting the jackpot, as most are jackpot based. Most are fairly simple to get.

As simple as the game is, cyclone always gave me a hard time hitting that right ramp consecutively for jackpot.

#4355 9 months ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Curious what you guys think is the most difficult system 11? I guess difficulty in getting the jackpot, as most are jackpot based. Most are fairly simple to get.
As simple as the game is, cyclone always gave me a hard time hitting that right ramp consecutively for jackpot.

For me personally, Earthshaker was always the hardest.

#4356 9 months ago

I have something going on with my Elvira and the party monsters that is driving me crazy.

I have posted about the squealing while booting. Someone said to replace the power supply. So I did that and the machine still squealed. Then someone told me to replace c-30 on the cpu. Well I replaced the entire cpu board and it still squeals.

Last night I went to power it on and it tripped my circuit breaker and blew the 8 amp fuse in the cabinet.

Would I have an inline filter issue? a varistor issue? a ground issue?

This machine is driving me crazy! Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you.

#4357 9 months ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

Here is a picture of that area of the board. I think U41 needs to be replaced unfortunately. [quoted image]

Just to close the loop on this the board is fixed. It was just a bad I/O pin on the PIA chip and U41. Was able to quickly confirm that with the logic probe. Took about 10 minutes to unsolder the PIA, test it out of circuit in a dedicated tester, then install a DIP socket and a tested good PIA. After washing the flux off the back of the board, and drying it I can confirm that the signal now works all the way out to the connector. Since it is now socketed if the chip ever fails again it can easily be replaced. All good.

#4358 8 months ago
Quoted from Sheev_Palpatine:

I have something going on with my Elvira and the party monsters that is driving me crazy.
I have posted about the squealing while booting. Someone said to replace the power supply. So I did that and the machine still squealed. Then someone told me to replace c-30 on the cpu. Well I replaced the entire cpu board and it still squeals.
Last night I went to power it on and it tripped my circuit breaker and blew the 8 amp fuse in the cabinet.
Would I have an inline filter issue? a varistor issue? a ground issue?
This machine is driving me crazy! Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Thank you.

Resolved

#4359 8 months ago

Perhaps you could share the solution for future reference in case other people experience the same problem(s)?

#4360 8 months ago
Quoted from Zigzagzag:

Perhaps you could share the solution for future reference in case other people experience the same problem(s)?

Hi zigzagzag thanks for your interest and support on this issue. I explained it all in the Elvira thread if you are truly interested.

#4361 8 months ago
Quoted from Sheev_Palpatine:

Hi zigzagzag thanks for your interest and support on this issue. I explained it all in the Elvira thread if you are truly interested.

Yep, great!

#4362 8 months ago

These all have 9105 stamped on the side. Would that mean they were made in May 91? Amazing they held together, got lucky.

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#4363 8 months ago

Figured this is the best thread to post this:

Swords of fury or Bk2k?

Which is better in your opinion

#4364 8 months ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Figured this is the best thread to post this:
Swords of fury or Bk2k?
Which is better in your opinion

Swords by far.

Bk2k is trap. Up top. Trap. Up top. Trap. Up top. All day long. Looks cool though.

Swords has maybe the coolest music package in SS pinball. We were just discussing it in the weekend. Rollergames is also cool, but in a cheesy synth way ….

Check it out!

rd

#4365 8 months ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Figured this is the best thread to post this:
Swords of fury or Bk2k?
Which is better in your opinion

I say you'll have more fun with Swords of Fury. Both are mostly one-shot games (upper loop on BK2K and Titan Tunnel on SoF), but you do at least get to shoot other shots on Swords of Fury once you're in multiball. It's never not optimal to be on the upper playfield in Black Knight 2000, and I feel like the playfield layout just isn't as interesting or unique.

#4366 8 months ago

I played a ton of bk2k this weekend and loved it. Fast and quicker ball times. But def noticed the right flipper dominance.

Swords I can’t say I’ve played. But love the theme and layout.

#4367 8 months ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Swords by far.
Bk2k is trap. Up top. Trap. Up top. Trap. Up top. All day long. Looks cool though.
Swords has maybe the coolest music package in SS pinball. We were just discussing it in the weekend. Rollergames is also cool, but in a cheesy synth way ….
Check it out!

rd

Ya cool adventure type music. I love the progressive jackpot too

#4368 8 months ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Swords by far.
Bk2k is trap. Up top. Trap. Up top. Trap. Up top. All day long. Looks cool though.
Swords has maybe the coolest music package in SS pinball. We were just discussing it in the weekend. Rollergames is also cool, but in a cheesy synth way ….
Check it out!

rd

LIONMAN! I regret selling mine a few years back. I think I did because I got very good at it really fast and after that lost interest. The scoring on it made competitive play difficult with the rolling jackpot. I don't like the idea that I can play the same game twice and depending on something out of my control my score can be completely different. I do think it has the best original music out of any pinball I've experienced. Definitely deserves a subwoofer and to crank the sound up. I would love to hear others' opinions on that though or other games with great music packages.

#4369 8 months ago
Quoted from tylery85:

LIONMAN! I regret selling mine a few years back. I think I did because I got very good at it really fast and after that lost interest. The scoring on it made competitive play difficult with the rolling jackpot. I don't like the idea that I can play the same game twice and depending on something out of my control my score can be completely different. I do think it has the best original music out of any pinball I've experienced. Definitely deserves a subwoofer and to crank the sound up. I would love to hear others' opinions on that though or other games with great music packages.

It’s definitely up there. A lot of the system 11 games have very good music. Whirlwind, BK2K, Earthshaker. Bride of Pinbot also has very good music

#4370 8 months ago
Quoted from tylery85:

LIONMAN! I regret selling mine a few years back. I think I did because I got very good at it really fast and after that lost interest. The scoring on it made competitive play difficult with the rolling jackpot. I don't like the idea that I can play the same game twice and depending on something out of my control my score can be completely different. I do think it has the best original music out of any pinball I've experienced. Definitely deserves a subwoofer and to crank the sound up. I would love to hear others' opinions on that though or other games with great music packages.

Jackpots on a lot of System 11 games generally aren't as problematic as they're often made out to be and can be kept pretty consistent without needing a custom ROM. It's a little awkward (I think how long this post ended up becoming is a good indication of that), but the effort can make the games more fun to play in a home collection.

For example, the jackpot on Cyclone resets to 500,000 when collected, and it's increased every time the ball goes through one of the top lanes. Adjustment 42 lets you set the amount the jackpot is increased when rolling through a lane to anywhere between 1,000 and 99,000. If you're setting the game up for a tournament, you can set it to 1,000; unless everybody playing is particularly awful, the jackpot will increase by only about 15,000 points at most before somebody collects it. This is pretty reasonable considering that the jet bumpers are also worth 1,000 points per hit (plus Ferris Wheel bonus); it's akin to getting a little more lucky than normal with bumper hits. I also make it a point to not make the jackpot any more difficult to collect than the default setting; while I'll have the Comet unlit at game start, the Cyclone will always start lit to keep the jackpot low. The other half of this is that the game will boost the jackpot at the end of a game if the jackpot is currently under 1,000,000 *and* there are no replay credits on the machine. Cyclone actually keeps track of replay credits while set to free play; if the replay score is set to its lowest possible value and a replay is awarded every game, then the machine will never boost the jackpot, and it will always remain at around 500k.

I'm talking about Cyclone and not Swords of Fury because I do not own a Swords of Fury (nor have I ever), but it was released around the same time as Cyclone, so I'm thinking that its jackpot should be similar to Cyclone's in how it works. There's not a lot of good information on Swords of Fury's jackpot that I can find online; most sources say that there's no way to increase the jackpot during the game and that the jackpot is only increased after a game is over, but this is blatantly untrue based on the footage I've been reviewing. Adjustment 40 lets you specify a jackpot increase between 1,000 and 99,000, but it doesn't indicate what actually adds this value to the jackpot. From the videos I've seen, it looks like shooting behind the ramp to advance or collect the Ogre's Alley value is what increases the jackpot (the outlanes don't seem to do the same), but I would need somebody with a SoF to confirm this for me. I am also under the impression that SoF can boost the jackpot by a million at the end of a game based on the same rules that Cyclone uses. Ergo, setting the jackpot increase to 1,000 and setting the lowest possible replay score should keep the jackpot at 500k, which I'd call reasonable for something that can be collected by hitting a single target.

#4371 8 months ago

There is the custom ROM for SoF available that sets the jackpot to a fixed level

#4372 8 months ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

I played a ton of bk2k this weekend and loved it. Fast and quicker ball times.

You’re not playing it right.

A game of BK2K will last indefinitely if you catch the ball on the right flipper (easy - it lands there ..) and shoot it back up the top every time. Keep shooting it up there until you get the WAR letters, then shoot the left ramp again to collect the hurry up which keeps increasing in value. Do that 100x in a row.
Unfortunately that kills the game if you’re a half decent player.

Swords of Fury
- you can go for Multiball
- you can advance the loop jackpot to the max 500k (then try to hit it in Multiball for a 2x or 3x value depending on balls in play).
- You can shoot the upper playfield for points and the drops get progressively harder to hit (they don’t pop up instantly when hit). You can remove the rubber ring near the flipper to make that playfield more difficult.
- you can shoot the LIONMAAAAN hurry up which gets faster and faster
- you can shoot the Avenger drops for points and to relight your kickback.
- you get to listen to awesome tunes.

Progressive jackpots suck for multiplayer games - so get the custom rom which locks MB JP at 1,500,000. Which doesn’t overpower the game, and makes the other things in the game valuable. I think my one came from PAPA years ago.

Same with Cyclone - I had “a guy” (probably reading lol) make me a custom rom with fixed 2m jackpot. So you can go for that, or the double Comet (1m or 2m when doubled), or keep going for Ferris wheels, preferably doubled too. Three ways to play the game.

Custom roms make SYS11s even better.

rd

#4373 8 months ago

Killer write up Dave. Thank you!

SOF is first on my list, followed by bk2k. I'm not the best player in the world, so getting back up to upper pf gives me fits. haha.

#4374 8 months ago
Quoted from Jmckune:

It’s definitely up there. A lot of the system 11 games have very good music. Whirlwind, BK2K, Earthshaker. Bride of Pinbot also has very good music

Don't discount the music in Dr. Dude. It actually has 3 soundtracks. I would argue that the music in ANY System 11 games integrates more with the play than any modern music pin made.

Chris

#4375 8 months ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

Don't discount the music in Dr. Dude. It actually has 3 soundtracks. I would argue that the music in ANY System 11 games integrates more with the play than any modern music pin made.

Chris

Honorable mention to Pinbot, which i think has the best sounds/music of all.

Space station too

#4376 8 months ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Killer write up Dave. Thank you!
SOF is first on my list, followed by bk2k. I'm not the best player in the world, so getting back up to upper pf gives me fits. haha.

These two plus a Taxi or Mousin' Around are on my short list to hopefully own one day. Oh, and a Pinbot too! haha. I guess my System 11 wish list is pretty long.

Rats I also forgot Space Station!

#4377 8 months ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Honorable mention to Pinbot, which i think has the best sounds/music of all.

The Pinbot code is pretty amazing. I am not aware of any other game with such a tight synchronization between sound and light effects. The most obvious place this is used is in the robot mouth animation during speech, which is perfectly in sync. In other games (Bad Cats, for example) the sound and lamp threads are started at the same time but there is no synchronization once the threads are running. As a result, the effects never perfectly in sync.

#4378 8 months ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Honorable mention to Pinbot, which i think has the best sounds/music of all.
Space station too

The first thing that always comes to mind when Pinbot is mentioned is the audio. That bass!

#4379 8 months ago

Pinbot is my favorite system 11. It's what pinball means to me. You against that machine. Love it. And it's an ass kicker.

That said, WTB: SOF and BK2K!

#4380 8 months ago
Quoted from idealjoker:

The Pinbot code is pretty amazing. I am not aware of any other game with such a tight synchronization between sound and light effects. The most obvious place this is used is in the robot mouth animation during speech, which is perfectly in sync. In other games (Bad Cats, for example) the sound and lamp threads are started at the same time but there is no synchronization once the threads are running. As a result, the effects never perfectly in sync.

I imagine Swords of Fury is like most system 11 games where the music changes between ball locks, but the difference to me is that the music is progressive. Like the music is the same, but adds in layers between locks. I'm partial to it; maybe this is how other games' audio operates. Worth checking out if you haven't before. Reminds of John Carpenter or something.

I just listened through that again and it still does it for me. The coding was great too because when you'd lock a ball it would find the right spot to add the drum fill before moving to the next progression so things were seamless. Not to mention the multiball and other music is excellent.

#4381 8 months ago

Does anyone have a 4 digit display for sale? The one in my High Speed is dead.

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1 week later
#4382 8 months ago

High Speed- Excessive Buzzing (or hum)

Not sure if this is the right place for this post. I have a High Speed with what some people call a normal amount of hum but I find excessive. It's most noticeable in the attract mode and lamp check modes. The buzzing coincides with the number of playfield lights that are on. The more lights, the louder the buzzing. It also occurs during game play, just less noticeable. The position of the volume control pot does not affect the volume of the buzzing. Also, all of the screws are in the PCBs.

I've tried to find posts on reducing hum in High Speed or any System 11 games but I didn't really find anything. It seems like people comment on system 11 games having excessive hum, but no one seems to have any solutions beyond installing all the pcb screws.


Attract Mode at 2 minute time mark

#4383 8 months ago
Quoted from billsacto:

High Speed- Excessive Buzzing (or hum)
Not sure if this is the right place for this post. I have a High Speed with what some people call a normal amount of hum but I find excessive. It's most noticeable in the attract mode and lamp check modes. The buzzing coincides with the number of playfield lights that are on. The more lights, the louder the buzzing. It also occurs during game play, just less noticeable. The position of the volume control pot does not affect the volume of the buzzing. Also, all of the screws are in the PCBs.
I've tried to find posts on reducing hum in High Speed or any System 11 games but I didn't really find anything. It seems like people comment on system 11 games having excessive hum, but no one seems to have any solutions beyond installing all the pcb screws.


Attract Mode at 2 minute time mark

Just today I got rid of very loud hum on my high speed by moving batteries off board into a plastic battery holder that I velcroed above the mpu next to the sound board. When I reinstalled the mpu board I made sure to have all matching proper size screws that I screwed all the way in. I also kept the nylon wire holder at the top center screw off board. No more hum, it’s awesome.

#4384 8 months ago
Quoted from billsacto:

High Speed- Excessive Buzzing (or hum)
Not sure if this is the right place for this post. I have a High Speed with what some people call a normal amount of hum but I find excessive. It's most noticeable in the attract mode and lamp check modes. The buzzing coincides with the number of playfield lights that are on. The more lights, the louder the buzzing. It also occurs during game play, just less noticeable. The position of the volume control pot does not affect the volume of the buzzing. Also, all of the screws are in the PCBs.
I've tried to find posts on reducing hum in High Speed or any System 11 games but I didn't really find anything. It seems like people comment on system 11 games having excessive hum, but no one seems to have any solutions beyond installing all the pcb screws.


Attract Mode at 2 minute time mark

You can try removing the speaker wires from any looms they’re in, and routing them away from my power/light wires.

Also check the earth lead from the cabinet to the backbox is attached both ends, and it’s conducting properly.

rd

#4385 8 months ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

Just today I got rid of very loud hum on my high speed by moving batteries off board into a plastic battery holder that I velcroed above the mpu next to the sound board.

This is not a good idea!
If you put the batteries above the mpu, you still get the batteries to leak on your mpu under the batteries!!!
Put the batteries at the bottom of the backbox or on the side panel of the backbox.
Even better to get a nvram chip, no more batteries needed.

#4386 8 months ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

If you put the batteries above the mpu, you still get the batteries to leak on your mpu under the batteries!!!

Yep! Don’t do that.

The gas from the batteries comes out and hangs around below the box.

My boxes are all on long wires down the bottom right of the headbox. Out of harms way.

rd

#4387 8 months ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

This is not a good idea!
If you put the batteries above the mpu, you still get the batteries to leak on your mpu under the batteries!!!
Put the batteries at the bottom of the backbox or on the side panel of the backbox.
Even better to get a nvram chip, no more batteries needed.

This seems like an incredibly remote risk but you’re right, I should just force myself to install nvram as a matter of course, although it is sort of a pita and expensive.

I really just posted the battery holder install location to see if anyone had an opinion on whether it contributed to the hum alleviation, per the original poster’s query. My hum was obnoxiously loud before.

#4388 8 months ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

I should just force myself to install nvram as a matter of course, although it is sort of a pita and expensive.

Just solder on longer wires and put it at the bottom of the headbox.

Cost = $0. Or close to $0.

PS battery box location won’t affect sound. You have some sort of RF interference happening.

rd

#4389 8 months ago
Quoted from rotordave:

PS battery box location won’t affect sound. You have some sort of RF interference happening.
rd

Or a bad ground with the board mounting screws

#4390 8 months ago

I recently introduced a rather loud hum after installing an NVRAM module on the MPU board.
After a little troubleshooting, I realized that I hadn't fully tightened the mounting screws, leaving the board with a poor ground connection.

Literally a few turns of a screwdriver eliminated the hum altogether.

Make sure your ground connections are solid.

#4391 8 months ago
Quoted from Platypus:

Or a bad ground with the board mounting screws

Quoted from andylama:

Make sure your ground connections are solid.

Yep. All the way from the board screws back to the mains lead if necessary.

Should be a solid chain.

rd

#4392 8 months ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Yep. All the way from the board screws back to the mains lead if necessary.
Should be a solid chain.
rd

Make sure you have the proper size screws and a short screwdriver. The screws on the left side of the mpu board are hard to reach.

#4393 8 months ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

This seems like an incredibly remote risk but you’re right, I should just force myself to install nvram as a matter of course, although it is sort of a pita and expensive.

Repairing a acid damaged cpu board is much worse than a pita and much much more expensive.
I know, I've got multiple boards waiting for repairs and these take hours to fix....

#4394 8 months ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:

Repairing a acid damaged cpu board is much worse than a pita and much much more expensive.
I know, I've got multiple boards waiting for repairs and these take hours to fix....

Yep, I have had to scrap multiple board because of alkaline damage, on games that hadn’t been played in decades, purchased from owners who didn’t know how to remove the backglass.

Here, the risk that I forget to change batteries for a very very long time, they leak, then explode outside the battery holder, then make a direct hit on a board that they aren’t connected to, then cause damage, is probably one in a million. That actually might be on the low side.

But your point is well taken, it’s best practice to install nvram and I shouldn’t be cheap and lazy. It has been ordered and should arrive this weekend.

#4395 8 months ago
Quoted from sullivcd40:

Yep, I have had to scrap multiple board because of alkaline damage, on games that hadn’t been played in decades, purchased from owners who didn’t know how to remove the backglass.
Here, the risk that I forget to change batteries for a very very long time, they leak, then explode outside the battery holder, then make a direct hit on a board that they aren’t connected to, then cause damage, is probably one in a million. That actually might be on the low side.
But your point is well taken, it’s best practice to install nvram and I shouldn’t be cheap and lazy. It has been ordered and should arrive this weekend.

If nothing else, I do Energizer Lithiums until I can get some NVRAM.

#4396 8 months ago
Quoted from billsacto:

High Speed- Excessive Buzzing (or hum)
Not sure if this is the right place for this post. I have a High Speed with what some people call a normal amount of hum but I find excessive. It's most noticeable in the attract mode and lamp check modes. The buzzing coincides with the number of playfield lights that are on. The more lights, the louder the buzzing. It also occurs during game play, just less noticeable. The position of the volume control pot does not affect the volume of the buzzing. Also, all of the screws are in the PCBs.
I've tried to find posts on reducing hum in High Speed or any System 11 games but I didn't really find anything. It seems like people comment on system 11 games having excessive hum, but no one seems to have any solutions beyond installing all the pcb screws.


Attract Mode at 2 minute time mark

FIXED..... BUZZING IS GONE!

Ok, I'm dumb. I noticed two additional screws missing from the MPU board. When I installed them, the buzzing disappeared. Down to very faint 60hz hum, i.e. normal.

#4397 8 months ago

3 amigos....

PXL_20231112_033005357.MP~2 (resized).jpgPXL_20231112_033005357.MP~2 (resized).jpg
#4398 8 months ago

Err... Musketeers? Whatever. Lol

#4399 8 months ago

While we're on the subject of hums..... on my System 11's I've noticed two distinct and different hums. One was more of a higher-pitched electronic "whine" in my High Speed, that grew louder/softer in relation to whatever was lighting up on the playfield. I tightened every screw holding the boards and that hum/whine was reduced to a very acceptable level, so problem solved.

The other, on Pinbot, is a hum that sounds something like an electric razor. It stays at the same volume during attract mode and gameplay. I've tightened all boards' screws and it didn't change the hum one bit. I had picked up a sound board cap kit but don't want to molest what looks like a brand new board unless necessary, since I don't know what the cause might be. Would I be better off capping the sound board or the power supply first? I see where owners have recapped boards and nothing changed. What's my next move here?

#4400 8 months ago
Quoted from jibmums:

I had picked up a sound board cap kit but don't want to molest what looks like a brand new board unless necessary

Brand new board? Or a nice condition 35 year old board.

Quoted from jibmums:

Would I be better off capping the sound board or the power supply first?

You should recap any and all 35 year old electrolytic caps where ever they are located.

Quoted from jibmums:

What's my next move here?

How about some pics of the boards so we can see if the caps have been replace in the past.

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