Continuing were I finished with another system 11.
This time Riverboat Gambler found its way home.

The real issue is actually that I just replaced the coil and turns out the one I put in had the diode when it should not. As a result, whenever the diverter fired, the fuse would blow. I clipped the diode off and now it works perfectly. I got confirmation from another Police FOrce owner who just did a shop out that the wiring was correct and since I kinda just went through the same issue with a Mousin Around, it made me suspect of this one as well. Confirmed with the same person that their coil did NOT have a diode and went from there.

Your point is certainly valid though if the diode was required and I appreciate your input! Thank you.

Chris

That's great. As confirmation, when a coil with only TWO LUGS (single winding) does not require a diode, it does not matter what side the wires connect to... because a coil with one winding is just a very long single insulated wire wrapped around a plastic bobbin.

Good info! Thank you for the explinati0on! I appreciate everyone's help as I learn how to do this stuff myself

Chris

<tl;dr>

To be pedantically detail oriented:

Inductive Loads:

• A diode is always required when an inductive load (solenoid) is driven by a solid state transistor.
• When current to the inductive load is interrupted the magnetic field collapses and generates a reverse voltage spike.
• The reverse voltage spike will damage the solid state transistor.
• The diode blocks this reverse voltage spike.

Williams Implementation:

• In System 11N and System 11A games (those without the Auxiliary Power board), the diode is located at the solenoid.
• In System 11B and System 11C games with the Auxiliary Power board, the diode is located on the Auxiliary Power board.
• When the diode is located at the solenoid, the wires must be connected to the appropriate lug. The supply wire is connected to the lug that is the BANDED (cathode) end of the diode. The drive wire is connected to the lug that is the non-banded (anode) end of the diode.
• When there is no diode at the solenoid, the wires can be connected to either lug as it does not matter (because there is no diode).
• You can still install a diode at the solenoid with the presence of the Auxiliary Power board, but you must wire it using the rule above (supply wire to banded and drive wire to non-banded).

The rule here is that if a machine has the Auxiliary Power board you do not need a diode at the solenoid. If the machine does not have the Auxiliary Power board you need a diode at the solenoid.

When the diode is properly connected, it prevents current from flowing through it and forces the current through the solenoid winding. The winding has resistance and generates the magnetic field. When the diode is incorrectly connected (supply wire to non-banded and drive wire to banded), this is a short circuit across the solenoid winding. There is no resistance to the current flow. This causes a LOT of current to flow instantly and this causes the fuse to blow.

</tl;dr>

Thanks for the above explanation, sir.

I need another explanation please. On some MPUs that I have run across, there is a part called an inductor. I always thought that an inductor was a guy who gave a speech welcoming someone into a Hall of Fame. What exactly does an inductor do? Thanks.

Are reproduction/replacement wood speaker panels available anywhere for system 11 games? I have a Bad Cats that has a badly warped one one that I would like to fix, thanks!

Can someone post a photo of how a system 11 with the side entry back glass lock is supposed to look? I see the part the lock is supposed to push on to hold glass In place but I can’t figure out what the cam is supposed to look like. Obviously the one in my picture is wrong but I am able to extend that one straight up but it looks like a flat one would not be able to hold it either in the fully upright position as it looks like it would just slide right past the lock cam.

55AF29A0-AF86-4D28-AF2A-6D7462E91C86 (resized).jpeg

You need this:
https://www.pinballlife.com/backbox-lock-cam-plate.html

Me again with my never ending stupid System 11 questions.

Police Force this time.

Game has music but no sounds effects. I worked a long time to track down a diverter issue which is now solved. During that process, and trying different boards in the game thinking that was the issue, I lost the sounds.

Game originally worked (both sounds and music). I replaced the MPU with a board from Victor. This is when I lost the sounds.

Victor's board works 100% fine in my Mousin' Around now so I know that MPU was good. Once I fixed the diverter issue I replaced the original MPU back into Police Force.

Replaced all sound ROMS in the machine
Replaced ribbon cables with known working cables from a Bad Cats

So here we are. Anything to check easily before I send the MPU and sound boards out for service and testing?

Chris

I’ve had a couple of similar issues lately.

First - check all the voltages and AC ripple at the power board.

Second - I have a Victor board in my Taxi restore, and had music but missing sounds.

Here was his advice - which was correct, I had a bad U24. Swapped that out and away she went.

<paste>

The first thing to check is the processor. Make sure you have the correct jumper setting for the processor. A quick and easy test is to put the sound processor (U24) into the game processor (U15). See if the board starts. If it does not then either the processor is bad or the setting is bad. The setting is the "Hitachi select/deselect". If you have an original processor then it's correctly labeled. Some of the processors available for purchase are pulls and are often re-labeled. They are always re-labeled as Motorola even though they may be Hitachi. You can switch the shunt jumper setting to quickly exclude this.

After the processor verifies then check the ROMs. If all that verifies you need escalation because those are the easy things to verify.

<end>

rd

BOOM! This worked! I had the same info earlier from Victor. I did replace U24 before but maybe I got a bad one? So based on your info again I switched it out and now it’s working great! Thank you RD) and Victor)!!!

Chris

duplicate

Nice!

rd

Say, recently rejoined the club as I picked up a Police Force. My enter button on my coin door service bank is not working. It's a 3 bank panel. Only could find these two 4-bank ones on Marco. Will one of these work?

large (resized).jpg

large 2 (resized).jpg

The actual switches are the same, you can remove them from the bracket and install on your bracket.

So either will work? Mine as well go with the cheaper one then. THX

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/williams-coin-door-service-switches-part-numbers-inside

3 questions from a new noob. Whirlwind

1. Can a defective coil blow the F7 on the aux power driver board.
2. When rebuilding the flipper assembly can a 12 guage wire be used to connect the EOS to the coil.
3. When checking the bigger odd numbered diodes in the cabinet they read as though they are bad. Outside the cabinet they read good. Is that normal. Thanks for your help.

As far as 1) I would guess it is something other than a coil. Blown transistor or chip would be my guess.

https://pinside.com/pinball/market/shops/1285-troxel-repair/04251-williams-service-buttons-game-adjustment-diagnostic-switches

Perfect, thanks!

I am cleaning up the wiring for a System 11C (Riverboat Gambler). Any idea what this hack pertains to? I noticed my coin door also has a play counter added to it, not sure if it is related to this. It's spliced to the green/brown wire which on the switch matrix seems to control things on the coin door and tilt.

20220807_113520.jpg

NTE3040 is an optoisolator. From your description, sounds like it might be what someone used to patch a coin door signal (coin switch?) back to the counter. Allows the counter to be powered separately and still receive input from the game circuitry without it being connected electrically to the main game circuits.

Where does a man who wants a system 11 coin door buy one? I have a lame door for my cyclone with nothing on it. I mean, it is in nice condition, just looks dumb. Anyone?

Strip it and give it a paint job with satin black stray paint.

Cost - an hour and $5 can of paint.

Welcome to SYS11 ownership!

rd

You don't understand. Let me show you a pic. I don't WANT this thing lol.

20221111_205630 (resized).jpg

Have it chromed

Haha where’s the money go!

Seriously though - looks pretty tidy. Not the right door, of course. Someone will have one around.

rd

That is a lower coin vault door from an arcade machine.

Update… I’ve had 20 over the years.

Current:
HS
Grand Lizard
Mousin' Around
Space Shuttle

Had:
TAXI
HS X3
EATPM X2
F14 TOMCAT X2
DINER
JOKERZ!
Pinbot
Swords of Fury
Sorcerer X2
Comet
Space Shuttle

Which couple of those system 11’s we’re your favourites snyper2099

I really do like Grand Lizard a lot. It is just so balanced and a perfect classic, multiplayer game in so many ways. It's hands down the BEST pinball ever created with a manga save feature .

Space Shuttle is so simple but universally appealing to both casual and serious players. I also like learning about astronomy as a hobby.

Mousin Around is just the perfect Sys 11 tournament game. Individual jackpot building feature for each player (that MATTERS)... way ahead of it's time.

I know purists may not like grouping sys 9 and 11 together but the main differences between those 2 systems are so minor (sound differences, alpha-numerics, and transistors drives that I contest they belong together.

I mean if you look at ANY later system 11C and compare it to ANY 11(nothing) game like Road Kings... there are SO MANY differences that every single board is completely different from one game to the other game.

So, any system 9 game's boards/hardware is way more similar to an early sys11 than Road Kings is similar to say a Diner or Rollergames.

System 9's software is very rooted in system 7, so it's definitely bridging the systems here.... software closer to system 7, hardware closer to system 11.

Club:

My bottom left score display doesn't work on my Road Kings.

Anyone have a replacement they don't need?

Sheesh, what year is it in my basement, ya old bastards?

So, a little over a year and a half ago I bought Cyclone to restore it and sell. But instead, it's made me more fond for this generation of machine. I love pinball and I love video games, but I'm finding the newer games' rules to be too in depth. If I wanted that, I'd just play video games. These older machines are really scratching the itch perfectly. Plus, I've never played most of them, so often times they're new to me. Love it.

20221120_090051 (resized).jpg

Picked up a player's Whilrwind cab/head only. If anyone has any leads on a populated System11 playfield (preferably Whirlwind), let me know. Thanks.

The flipper button switches on my Road Kings are badly worn and need replacement. The current switches have a red varistor that says TI .1z 500v on them. Can I use a blue varistor that says 104z 500v or should I keep the old ones?

It's not JUST the rules or depth. There are so many other reasons most all new games are no longer appealing to own. I'm glad someone else sees it too. New games are basically all empty hearted shells of the former glory days/years of great pinball. 1980-82 and 1991-93. Show me a new game like the ones from those years that actually has a soul... TNA came close but still falls short for me on a couple sweet spots/reasons for owning. For me, the closest game to date that just MIGHT have a soul... is Maiden. Most everything else is unispired, overpriced, rushed, money grabbing, horseshit. We have officially moved into the "post covid scare" era of pinball where ANYTHING can sell to an unsuspecting fool for 10 grand or more. If it has a silver ball in it and an HD LCD screen, people want it and will pay whatever for it. Good game play or "code"? Ha, that doesn't even matter any more. Theme is WAY more important than gameplay or code because it gets the kids and wife to participate. Designers didn't care about those things in 80-82,91-93. Slap a theme on it and mail in the design. Oh well, more great games for me to buy from people that are dumping stuff to buy the new Stern Bond.

Those are capacitors. Color of the new ones don't matter. You can reuse the old ones if they're in ok shape. All they do is limit spark so the high voltage switch contacts last longer.

I find the newer games (sterns specifically) to all look and feel like the same game with a different theme. I do still want to own a mustang pin, but other than that one and maybe stern batman, i rarely have the desire to own anything newer than WPC.
The simpsons pinball party may have been my biggest let down, beautiful pin, great art and sounds, but damn i had no clue what i was doing after months of owning it.

Thanks @gutz. So the printed numbers are just showing how much protection they provide? Meaning a higher number is more protective?

No, just that it's the max voltage it can handle. You definitely need one that can handle the expected voltage or it will blow it, but if you got the same capacitance (.1z) and a higher voltage (1000v) it would be fine, but not needed.

Thanks @slochar. Would it be harmful to use higher capacitance (4z) rather than the old .1z that is there now?

Here some fun (short) reading on what the cap is doing:
https://wiki.testguy.net/t/arc-suppression-circuits/39

Based on the info there that the cap needs to charge quickly, I'd say no.... going from .1 to 4 is 40 times the original value, and it might not react quickly enough to make any difference. That said, tons of machines don't even have caps installed and are fine. They have been used on German spec machines almost from the start of the solid state era though so must be some kind of requirement there.

Thanks again @slochar. I'll stick with the .1 just to be safe. I'm not sure what the German connection is with Road Kings but there definitely is one. I don't recall seeing these capacitors on any of my other games.

I'm not sure how to define "soul" in a pinball machine, but I'd agree that the modern era is a mixed bag at best.

I'd been out of the pinball market for a long time, when I found out that the Stern Rush had come out. Played it at a local game show and found it was fun and so, being a big Rush fan for the last 40 years or so, I splurged and picked up a new one.

I really enjoy that game. It's got a good design, lots of varied shots, and the band members put a lot of work into bringing the machine alive with their callouts.

But when I look back at the last 20 years of new games, what I see is essentially one licensed content cabinet after another. Maybe the games are okay -- I also really liked Stern's Godzilla, when I played it -- but there seems to be a big reliance on basing sales not on the quality of the gameplay, but rather on how popular the licensed content is.

Honestly, in that respect the Rush game is a bit of a head-scratcher. Don't get me wrong; I think Rush ought to be the absolute most popular band in the world. But I'll be the first to admit they aren't. They have a loyal and sizable following to be sure, but big enough to drive sales of a pinball machine? Well, turns out maybe they are, but I never would've guessed it.

I digress. The fact is, while "way back when" there were still licensed content machines -- Addams Family and Twilight Zone come to mind, both of which I own and do enjoy -- there were also lots of really creative non-licensed-content machines, and in many cases I think those were better, with Medieval Madness being one of the best examples. But Revenge From Mars, Road Show, Theater of Magic, High Speed, F-14, to name maybe 10% at best of games falling into this category, they are great-playing games and have "content" that is not leaning on the Hollywood production machine, but instead was created by the ground up, often paying homage to similar ideas, but never just copying.

In most cases, there's also a lot of love and humor in the game, giving it some real personality and ensuring they keep the fun in pinball.

I would love to see pinball designers go back to coming up with really original ideas for themes to base their games on, instead of just looking around for what content they can license from a movie or record studio at a price that will still let them make a profit on the machine. A licensed machine can still turn out well, but IMHO it's a crutch and for all the machines to be like that these days, well...bor-ing!

I'm relatively new to pinball so still a bit in the honeymoon phase I guess. I find something cool in almost all of them, the new ones sometimes just take longer to figure out. Having said that, it's amazing how spartan some of them are for the price. Led Zeppelin pro is the most egregious but even Godzilla Pro, which I enjoy, has basically nothing on the playfield. Great for operators I suppose. I didn't fully grasp this until I bought and took apart Stargate. Stern would probably charge like $75k for all that!

Quickie question. Got a Police Force a few months, and the game was playing fine upon until a few weeks ago. Granted I don't play often, but, in the last few weeks, about every other game or so when I have just 1 ball in play and the other isn't locked yet, it will eject the other ball onto the shooter lane. Some games it's fine, sometimes it's not. Once or twice maybe, it's put both both balls into the shooter lane at the start of the game. Haven't really dug into yet, just thought I'd inquire here 1st. Never had a problem like this on a pin before.