(Topic ID: 43458)

System 11 Club !

By mof

11 years ago


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There are 4,535 posts in this topic. You are on page 71 of 91.
#3501 2 years ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

SO EXCITED!!! 2 more System 11's joining the lineup in May!!!!!
If it weren't for Black Knight, I'd have only System 11 games. LOL
Chris

Well which ones?!

#3502 2 years ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Now, none of my switches in row 8 register in edge test either. So both row 7 and 8 not coming up.on the display.

I would pull the CPU and check for cracked header pins on the back of the board.

#3503 2 years ago
Quoted from Blackbeard:

Well which ones?!

Mousin' Around and Earthshaker!

Chris

#3504 2 years ago

For those of you who restore Sys11 pins, who do you use for the warning/info decals on the back of the cab?

Thanks!

#3505 2 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

I would pull the CPU and check for cracked header pins on the back of the board.

No cracked header pins. In fact this board looks extremely clean. Looks like it's time to send out for a professional to take a look at.

#3506 2 years ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

In fact this board looks extremely clean. Looks like it's time to send out for a professional to take a look at.

Look at SRC -6, see if it's cracked.

#3507 2 years ago
Quoted from Pinkitten:

For those of you who restore Sys11 pins, who do you use for the warning/info decals on the back of the cab?

I screen them myself.

These are RadCals recently installed.

DSCN0965 - Copy (resized).JPGDSCN0965 - Copy (resized).JPGDSCN0966 - Copy (resized).JPGDSCN0966 - Copy (resized).JPGDSCN0968 (resized).JPGDSCN0968 (resized).JPGDSCN0970 (resized).JPGDSCN0970 (resized).JPG
#3508 2 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Look at SRC -6, see if it's cracked.

Looks like the end pin has been clipped off.

20220322_062804 (resized).jpg20220322_062804 (resized).jpg
#3509 2 years ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Looks like the end pin has been clipped off.
[quoted image]

Someone has replaced SRC 6 with a new part already. The original part isn't available anymore so the tenth pin needs to be cut on the new part.

#3510 2 years ago

Does anyone have a Bally Game Show that works that can look at something for me?

It's a Williams System 11C

Can you look in diagnostics in coil test and tell me what happens (what flashes) when you get to:
Top Center Lane 'C' Side 04 01
and
Not Used 'A' Side 04 06

On Mine I'm seeing backbox GI
and
Teeth Flashers
respectively

(manual/schematics isn't helping)

Thanks!

#3511 2 years ago

Not sure if this thread is better than the Earthshaker thread but I figure I would start here.

I do not trust Williams manuals for some areas of information. Two areas where I have had problems are:

  • Auxiliary Power board fuse values
  • Interconnect board resistor values for R1-R12

Some of them are correct. Some of them are incorrect. I do not know which ones to trust. So I am asking machines owners for help.

For aux boards there is a label in the backbox of a machine that indicates the correct fuse values for the aux power board. This I trust.

For interconnect boards if you have a board that appears untouched I would appreciate knowing the values of R1-R12. Either as a list of numbers or images that show the values clearly. The reason I ask for "appears untouched" is because I have seen previous replacements of these resistors with incorrect parts (e.g. 4 Ohm instead of 3 Ohm) as operators used what was on hand and "close enough".

Feel free to post the information here to help others in the future or PM me if you don't feel comfortable doing that. All help is appreciated.

If anyone has the resistor value information for the Earthshaker interconnect board available more immediately this I would appreciate as I have someone who wants a board built but I don't trust the manuals so I cannot build the board without the information. Of course, I don't have an Earthshaker which is why I am asking.

#3512 2 years ago

Hey guys,
I picked up a dead Diner a couple weeks ago. Board was dead.
We sent it to someone who fixed it up.

But now it's developed different issues.

I've had every single switch column transistor fail, one by one in the space of 3 days.
Replaced them with beefier 2n5551’s.

Now a similar transistor has failed for one of the coils.

Is there something else going on here or is it common for a board that's been dead for a decade or so to have multiple components fail in quick succession?

I've not had the same ones fail twice so that rules out shorts right?

I'm getting more and more disheartened by it but I'd feel happier knowing it is possible for components to fail like this and not something else, as I can replace them.

Another strange issue is our high scores disappear. The intials and other settings remain but the scores show as 00.
It seems a really odd thing to lose and the last time it happened it coincided with one of the switch col trannys dying but surely a coincidence.

The mpu has nvram and appeared to have battery and moisture damage although didn't appear that bad or the guy I sent it to would have cleaned it up.

Would appreciate some advice.

#3513 2 years ago

Another thing.

Sometimes when I power the game on the knocker fires (only once). Someone told me this is common with sys11 but it seems odd and scares the hell out of me

#3514 2 years ago

Aq

Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

Another thing.
Sometimes when I power the game on the knocker fires (only once). Someone told me this is common with sys11 but it seems odd and scares the hell out of me

Same on my F14 and SoF....also read it to be normal...try to find the link later on

#3515 2 years ago

Can confirm. My whirlwind either powers on with a quick speaker squeal or firing the knocker if it’s been sitting. If it hasn’t been off long it’ll power up quietly. Bad Cats on the other hand makes a noise that I can only describe as a terrifying electric noise while also firing a coil. So I’d say the coil thing is normal.

#3516 2 years ago
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

I've had every single switch column transistor fail, one by one in the space of 3 days.
Replaced them with beefier 2n5551’s.

Now a similar transistor has failed for one of the coils.

Every game that I have bought (only three, all from the 80s) developed a series of 4-6 board faults soon after purchase. After I fixed those (and dealt with the recommended cap and connector replacements) my boards have been solid. Maybe it has to do with my cleaning all the contacts when I get a new game --- I am imagining that this may increase the current draw --- and that I probably play way more games than the old owner did.

This is just a guess, though. I have wondered for a while whether my experience is strange or not.

#3517 2 years ago

The legs of the transistors did look mucky. Apparently the machine was stored in a damp location so I'm wondering if it was that? At least I hope it's that and not battery damage.

I guess dodgy legs cause bad conductivity meaning they fail quick?

Here's a few pics if anyone fancy inspecting the bad soldering

20220326_115233 (resized).jpg20220326_115233 (resized).jpg20220326_115258 (resized).jpg20220326_115258 (resized).jpg20220326_115304 (resized).jpg20220326_115304 (resized).jpg20220326_115307 (resized).jpg20220326_115307 (resized).jpg20220326_115311 (resized).jpg20220326_115311 (resized).jpg
#3518 2 years ago

I’d probably scrub that board down really good. If anything else prevents possible flammable material being removed from the pins

#3519 2 years ago
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

Hey guys,
I picked up a dead Diner a couple weeks ago. Board was dead.
We sent it to someone who fixed it up.
But now it's developed different issues.
I've had every single switch column transistor fail, one by one in the space of 3 days.
Replaced them with beefier 2n5551’s.
Now a similar transistor has failed for one of the coils.
Is there something else going on here or is it common for a board that's been dead for a decade or so to have multiple components fail in quick succession?
I've not had the same ones fail twice so that rules out shorts right?
I'm getting more and more disheartened by it but I'd feel happier knowing it is possible for components to fail like this and not something else, as I can replace them.
Another strange issue is our high scores disappear. The intials and other settings remain but the scores show as 00.
It seems a really odd thing to lose and the last time it happened it coincided with one of the switch col trannys dying but surely a coincidence.
The mpu has nvram and appeared to have battery and moisture damage although didn't appear that bad or the guy I sent it to would have cleaned it up.
Would appreciate some advice.

DaveTheTrain The transistors should not be failing like that. The surface corrosion is ugly but should not cause those failures. The common is the power supply. Check the voltages and filter capacitors. Maybe the corrosion is leaking an incorrect voltage to the transistors? You can safely scrub board with toothbrush and alcohol.

#3520 2 years ago
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

At least I hope it's that and not battery damage.

That is alkaline damage from the batteries gassing off, it covers the entire board in a fine mist and slowly eats it away.

#3521 2 years ago
Quoted from Kent_Diego:

DaveTheTrain The transistors should not be failing like that. The surface corrosion is ugly but should not cause those failures. The common is the power supply. Check the voltages and filter capacitors. Maybe the corrosion is leaking an incorrect voltage to the transistors? You can safely scrub board with toothbrush and alcohol.

Could you give some pointers on how to check this please?

Quoted from GRUMPY:

That is alkaline damage from the batteries gassing off, it covers the entire board in a fine mist and slowly eats it away.

I did a rub with IPA in areas I could get to. I hope it helps somewhat.
I suppose it might be under IC's? But damn removing them is beyond my skillset. unless I'm replacing them so I can cut them off.

#3522 2 years ago

My first system 11s came in the same week. Diner was a surprise, it's my girlfriends grail game and a friend found one and dropped it on our doorstep (we had COVID at the time). Was a big mission to bring Diner back from the dead. First time I've fully stripped a game and done insert decals

Bk2k had a stuck coil and a screwed aux driver board but both seem ok now.

Although as I've said in previous posts Diner keeps blowing transistors. It's been reliable today but who knows tomorrow! Fingers crossed I've replaced all the dying ones.

Both need a full led job. Atm I've used some spare sunlights and a few warm whites in GI but need to do the lot.
I'm thinking frosted sunlight or warm whites for Bk2k.
Diner a mix of frosted a clear Sunlights with a few cools to light the cup.
20220326_230100 (resized).jpg20220326_230100 (resized).jpg
20220326_175403 (resized).jpg20220326_175403 (resized).jpg

#3523 2 years ago
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

My first system 11s came in the same week. Diner was a surprise, it's my girlfriends grail game and a friend found one and dropped it on our doorstep (we had COVID at the time). Was a big mission to bring Diner back from the dead. First time I've fully stripped a game and done insert decals
Bk2k had a stuck coil and a screwed aux driver board but both seem ok now.
Although as I've said in previous posts Diner keeps blowing transistors. It's been reliable today but who knows tomorrow! Fingers crossed I've replaced all the dying ones.
Both need a full led job. Atm I've used some spare sunlights and a few warm whites in GI but need to do the lot.
I'm thinking frosted sunlight or warm whites for Bk2k.
Diner a mix of frosted a clear Sunlights with a few cools to light the cup.
[quoted image]
[quoted image]

DaveTheTrain I just saw a video repair of same problem with transistors failing. Seems the solenoid voltage was connected to a lamp voltage due to wrong connection under playfield.

#3524 2 years ago
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

I suppose it might be under IC's? But damn removing them is beyond my skillset. unless I'm replacing them so I can cut them off.

Yep and it even travels through the wiring harness. I would pull the board, unsolder physical parts like test switches and relays, clean board thoroughly with an acidic cleaner and a tooth brush, hose it down in the shower, rinse with alcohol (to displace water so it dries faster), blow dry with air compressor.

I’m certainly not an expert, but this has worked for all my sys9-11 games. Had F14 since 2011 and never had another problem with it after cleaning this way.

If the board is still bad after this, personally these days I would just replace it and sell the original as “for repair”.

#3525 2 years ago
Quoted from Kent_Diego:

DaveTheTrain I just saw a video repair of same problem with transistors failing. Seems the solenoid voltage was connected to a lamp voltage due to wrong connection under playfield.

Cheers!

So far it's been ok, 4 days without a failure. Before it was failing multiple times in 24hrs.

Fingers crossed.

Quoted from radium:

Yep and it even travels through the wiring harness. I would pull the board, unsolder physical parts like test switches and relays, clean board thoroughly with an acidic cleaner and a tooth brush, hose it down in the shower, rinse with alcohol (to displace water so it dries faster), blow dry with air compressor.
I’m certainly not an expert, but this has worked for all my sys9-11 games. Had F14 since 2011 and never had another problem with it after cleaning this way.
If the board is still bad after this, personally these days I would just replace it and sell the original as “for repair”.

If it keeps failing we'll have to do this

#3526 1 year ago
Quoted from DaveTheTrain:

If it keeps failing we'll have to do this

<my opinion>

If you don't do this (abate / neutralize) the alkaline will likely creep anywhere that it can and the board will fail in the future. At that point in time it may not be possible to salvage the board.

Given what I see in your images there's a LOT of labor required to properly neutralize and repair that board. I stopped working on boards like that. Too much labor.

</my opinion>

1 week later
#3527 1 year ago

**** Personal Opinion Post!! ****

Many say that Black Knight 2000 has the best sound package in the system 11 world (and for many, far beyond that), but I have to say.......................

The sound package on Dr. Dude is freaking incredible!!!!!! I think I may like it better than the BK2K sound package. Don't hear what I'm not saying. The sounds on BK2K (and all other System 11 games actually) are fantastic, but I just had a great game of Dr. Dude and the sounds really stood out to me for some reason.

Great work on all the System 11's Williams!!!!

Chris

#3528 1 year ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

Great work on all the System 11's Williams!!!!

Dr. Dude is a great sounding game! I'm partial to all the System 11s though (and the pre-DCS WPC games). The Yamaha sound chip and it's near infinite level of programming makes sound transitions much more seamless and immersive than anything that's sampled.

16
#3529 1 year ago

Just popping in to say hi.

9r (resized).jpg9r (resized).jpg11 (resized).jpg11 (resized).jpg12 (resized).jpg12 (resized).jpg
#3530 1 year ago
Quoted from Pinwizkid:

Just popping in to say hi.
[quoted image][quoted image][quoted image]

Picasso, Pollak, and Rembrandt have nothing on these works of art!

I always love seeing these photos. Maybe some day I can visit

Chris

#3531 1 year ago

Is anyone willing to sell there f-14 tomcat?

#3532 1 year ago
Quoted from pinballboy:

Is anyone willing to sell there f-14 tomcat?

I had mine listed and sold Tentatively for 4k. Its very very nice. The buyer started asking for more time and I felt like he was flaking on me.

Meanwhile a local friend wanted to have an F14 for a while. So I told the buyer I was going to keep my F14. For now, I have swapped my F14 with a local friends Jackbot. Its still technically for sale, but I had pulled the ad for the time being. PM me for more info if you want.

#3533 1 year ago

I’m also just in general looking to buy more system 11 machines if anyone would be wanting to sell any. I only have one at the moment and it’s definitely not the best system 11.

#3534 1 year ago

I'm having trouble with my Taxi. Pops won't work in game, but all 3 work fine in solenoid test.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/taxi-club-members-only/page/57#post-6869184

Link shows what Ive tried so far.

#3535 1 year ago
Quoted from FLASHBALL:

Pops won't work in game, but all 3 work fine in solenoid test.

Broken ground wire going to the activation switches. It's daisy chained from one switch to another.

#3536 1 year ago

Can someone familiar with these tell what the manufacture date is on this pin? It’s a Diner, so I’m guessing 1990, not sure about the rest. Thank you!

DDE60305-15FF-4DF8-8466-8EFA63A97976 (resized).jpegDDE60305-15FF-4DF8-8466-8EFA63A97976 (resized).jpeg
#3537 1 year ago

What the number says would be 90280.
I don't know how it will translate to a date.
My best guess would be year '90 day 280.

I have a label for an Addams with number 92150.
Again I don't know how this would translate to a date other than '92 day 150.

Later labels have a stamp which include the month name, like "sep 30 1999" or "oct 12 1995".

Do you need a reproduction file?
Just send me an email or pm with your email.

Peter
http://www.inkochnito.nl

13
#3538 1 year ago

I’m happy to say I am now in officially an owner of a high speed!

DC002E34-E3DF-4D10-8679-2A3E9E753D01 (resized).jpegDC002E34-E3DF-4D10-8679-2A3E9E753D01 (resized).jpeg
#3539 1 year ago

I finally figured out how to restore speaker panels. Several attempts and an embarrassing number of hours went into this but now I know how to do it.

3D5CF7A6-0878-4B1F-9876-BBC70EA501E7.jpeg3D5CF7A6-0878-4B1F-9876-BBC70EA501E7.jpeg

EF774BB0-ADF5-4126-9AE1-D4895A73CC07.jpegEF774BB0-ADF5-4126-9AE1-D4895A73CC07.jpeg

#3540 1 year ago
Quoted from radium:

I finally figured out how to restore speaker panels. Several attempts and an embarrassing number of hours went into this but now I know how to do it.

Please do tell

#3541 1 year ago
Quoted from radium:

I know how to do it.

Snazzy!

#3542 1 year ago

My approach: I clean them well, if needed with a magic eraser of some fine grid sand paper. Then I hit it with clearcoat from a rattle can for a 4 or 5 coats.
EZPZ.

#3543 1 year ago

Tech tip:

When servicing a sys-11 cpu board always replace the tantalum capacitor in the blanking circuit (near the 555 timer) for a normal capacitor. I had several of these replaced over the years.

Symptoms: board doesn't start or board boots but coils aren't working. On my earthshaker there were some random characters on the display, the coils didn't work, the playfield lighting was very faint for a few of the inserts or not working at all, but the board booted. Also the blanking led on the board was somewhat dim. Replacing that cap solved the issue, a 30 ct repair which saved me some money on the purchase price.

#3544 1 year ago
Quoted from HarrieD:

Tech tip:
When servicing a sys-11 cpu board always replace the tantalum capacitor in the blanking circuit (near the 555 timer) for a normal capacitor. I had several of these replaced over the years.
Symptoms: board doesn't start or board boots but coils aren't working. On my earthshaker there were some random characters on the display, the coils didn't work, the playfield lighting was very faint for a few of the inserts or not working at all, but the board booted. Also the blanking led on the board was somewhat dim. Replacing that cap solved the issue, a 30 ct repair which saved me some money on the purchase price.

Do you mean C58? 1uF

Added 23 months ago:

It is confirmed to be C58.

#3545 1 year ago

This got out of hand and I spent almost an hour on it, haha

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/restoring-speaker-panels-the-hard-way

#3546 1 year ago

Radium... I read the whole thread. Thanks for sharing this.!

Kerry

#3547 1 year ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

**** Personal Opinion Post!! ****
Many say that Black Knight 2000 has the best sound package in the system 11 world (and for many, far beyond that), but I have to say.......................
The sound package on Dr. Dude is freaking incredible!!!!!! I think I may like it better than the BK2K sound package. Don't hear what I'm not saying. The sounds on BK2K (and all other System 11 games actually) are fantastic, but I just had a great game of Dr. Dude and the sounds really stood out to me for some reason.
Great work on all the System 11's Williams!!!!
Chris

I'd also throw Mousin' Around into that category. One of my favorite things about that game was how much synchronization there was going on with the music. Seamless transitions and song endings, lights synced to the music, and sound effects that changed key to match the key of the music. Many of these things were done on other System 11 games, but there weren't many that combined them all like Mousin' Around did.

#3548 1 year ago
Quoted from Inkochnito:Do you mean C58? 1uF

I was wondering this also. I've had blanking circuit problems before and sent my board out to an experienced tech. While it wasnt all that expensive, I garauntee a capacitor replacement wouldve been worth a try before sending out.

#3549 1 year ago
Quoted from HarrieD:

When servicing a sys-11 cpu board always replace the tantalum capacitor in the blanking circuit (near the 555 timer) for a normal capacitor. I had several of these replaced over the years.

Quoted from Inkochnito:

Do you mean C58? 1uF

What’s the theory behind the swap?

The tantalum is worn out with age?

How about a new tantalum - that would work too?

Maybe one of the tech guys can weigh in on the pros/cons of swapping in a standard 1uf cap?

(I have this exact issue on a Taxi that’s been in storage for years …. So I’m keen to know …)

rd

25
#3550 1 year ago

Just finished the Taxi restore.

This machine was one that had been stored for years, it had water damage to the front and bottom of the cabinet.

- new ply bottom, routed to take under cab LEDs
- cabinet fully stripped to wood and refinished in yellow 2K
- new cabinet decals
- playfield fully stripped, repaired, refinished with lots of 2k and buffed
- new ramps
- all metalwork hand polished
- etc etc etc

Lots of work but came out pretty good.

rd

2FD3A995-7638-4C3A-8E08-2F598CF97169 (resized).jpeg2FD3A995-7638-4C3A-8E08-2F598CF97169 (resized).jpegD16BC4F1-6A81-4955-A574-2CCEF853CE07 (resized).jpegD16BC4F1-6A81-4955-A574-2CCEF853CE07 (resized).jpegFB4CCFB1-CBFA-474C-8092-2EE82990ED87 (resized).jpegFB4CCFB1-CBFA-474C-8092-2EE82990ED87 (resized).jpeg
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