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(Topic ID: 43458)

System 11 Club !


By mof

7 years ago



Topic Stats

  • 3,216 posts
  • 644 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 days ago by RonSwanson
  • Topic is favorited by 293 Pinsiders

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There are 3216 posts in this topic. You are on page 44 of 65.
#2151 2 years ago

I’m leaning towards u17 is bad. All 4 coils that feed into that circuit are locking on.

#2152 2 years ago
Quoted from patrickvc:

I’m leaning towards u17 is bad

Well U-17 was part of the circuit that was shorted when solenoid 15 was turned on. You can double check this by taking a voltage reading on pins 1,5,9 and 12 of U-17 just to make sure that it is not the pia chip too. These 4 inputs should be low 0.8 volts or less in attract mode. If they are low and the outputs are high then the chip is bad.

#2153 2 years ago

Ok. I’m assuming the white dot on the board signifies position 1. If so those points measure 3 volts dc each

#2154 2 years ago

Not to add to the pile of problems with this game, but also the drop targets aren’t registering. I checked for 12volts at the board but only have 6.5. If I check at the main board I have 12v with the target bank connectors taken off. 8.5v with just 1 set connected

#2155 2 years ago

You need to double check this, if you are getting 3 volts then the pia chip may have been damaged as well. I posted a chip pic, start at the notch and go in a counter clockwise direction.

Quoted from patrickvc:

If I check at the main board I have 12v with the target bank connectors taken off. 8.5v with just 1 set connected

Don't know what you mean by main board, but it sound as if there are some bad header pins and connectors.

7408 (resized).png

#2156 2 years ago

Ok measuring voltage by your schematic I do get 3 volts dc at those points. 3y also now has continuity with ground

#2157 2 years ago

By main board I meant j16 on aux driver board below main board

#2158 2 years ago
Quoted from patrickvc:

board below main board

This would be the inner connect board, these boards are known for crack header joints on the solder side.

Quoted from patrickvc:

I do get 3 volts dc at those points. 3y also now has continuity with ground

You got a lot to fix on the CPU.

#2159 2 years ago

Now I’m grumpy. Thanks. All because I did a coil test. Man what a mistake that was

#2160 2 years ago

I did get the targets registering now. Cold solder joints on the interconnect and I touched up the power supply too

#2161 2 years ago
Quoted from alexmogil:

I'm assuming you've left those transistors removed - is there still any continuity to U17 pin 8 to IJ12-8?

There is no longer continuity on u17 pin 8 and j12-8

#2162 2 years ago

I've been getting intermittent game resets (especially during multiball) on Whirlwind. I've been down this road before with a WPC game, WH2O.

Diodes have all been checked on the flippers - all good.

Found a suspect on the Aux Power Board (see picture). Hmmm...

Not going to mess around and just shotgun the usual suspects for replacements using vid1900 and schwaggs System 11 guides.

Off to Great Plains to load up on rebuild parts for the power boards (caps, transistors, resistors, zeners, plugs and headers, fuses, etc. & a couple of heat sinks thrown in for good measure).

IMG_3280 (resized).JPG

#2163 2 years ago
Quoted from zene10:

I've been getting intermittent game resets (especially during multiball) on Whirlwind. I've been down this road before with a WPC game, WH2O.
Diodes have all been checked on the flippers - all good.
Found a suspect on the Aux Power Board (see picture). Hmmm...
Not going to mess around and just shotgun the usual suspects for replacements using vid1900 and schwaggs System 11 guides.
Off to Great Plains to load up on rebuild parts for the power boards (caps, transistors, resistors, zeners, plugs and headers, fuses, etc. & a couple of heat sinks thrown in for good measure).

And you need to measure 5v and 12v on the power supply, which could be low. I suggest replacing all the capacitors on the power supply as they tend to leak and cause resets and other issues depending on which one fails.

#2164 2 years ago
Quoted from patrickvc:

Now I’m grumpy. Thanks. All because I did a coil test. Man what a mistake that was

Sorry, that's a bummer. Not that it will help you a lot now, but may help others if they read it. Some important things to do when you bring home a used System 11:
Read section 2," Before Turning the Game On"
http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index1.html

#2165 2 years ago

The guy I bought it from sent me a video of it playing great. It did for the first 10 games. I got most problems repaired. Now I have a kickback and right gate coils locking on. I’ve disconnected them so I can at least shoot a few games. I’ve replaced 7408 u17 and at least the leg of pin 8 is no longer grounded out so that’s good. Now I’m looking toward maybe an issue with U54 but before that I need to check the pre driver transistors on those two spots. 1J12 connector is the one with issues still. 2 if those coils on that connector are flashers and with new bulbs they still don’t work. The other is a GI relay that’s not clicking. Hopefully I’m getting somewhere with this game

#2166 2 years ago

I was at the VFW Ann Arbor Pinball Show this past weekend where they have close to 400 machines. They had almost all of the System 11's there, only were missing Riverboat Gambler and Bugs Bunny! Pure heaven. Some of the real standouts that I hadn't ever played before that I kept going back to were Fire! and Swords of Fury. They even had the super rare Transporter the Rescue! That was a cool game. So if you're in the midwest next May, check it out because it's only open to the public one weekend a year.

Below is the list of system 11's there:

Bad Cats (Williams 1989)
Banzai Run (Williams 1988)
Big Guns (Williams 1987)
Black Knight 2000 (Williams 1989)
Cyclone (Williams 1988)
Diner (Williams 1990)
Dr. Dude (Williams 1990)
Earthshaker (Williams 1989)
Elvira and the Party Monsters (Bally 1990)
F14 Tomcat (Williams 1987)
Fire (Williams 1987)
Game Show (Bally 1990)
Grand Lizard (Williams 1986)
High Speed (Williams 1986)
Jokerz (Williams 1988)
Millionaire (Williams 1987)
Mousin Around (Williams 1989)
Pinbot (Williams 1986)
Police Force (Williams 1989)
Pool Sharks (Bally 1990)
Radical (Bally 1990)
Road Kings (Williams 1986)
Rollergames (Williams 1990)
Space Station (Williams 1988)
Swords of Fury (Williams 1988)
Transporter the Rescue (Bally 1989)
Taxi (Williams 1988)
Whirlwind (Williams 1990)

http://vfwpinball.com/?page_id=244

1 week later
#2167 2 years ago

Hello! I am a new member of this club by picking up a Banzai Run. I have not read through this thread yet but am looking for repair info to get it working 100%. I just ordered TOP # 7 from Clay and am also looking for the System 11 repair guide. I know it is NLA but checking if anyone can point me in direction to purchase a copy.

Thanks in advance.

#2168 2 years ago
Quoted from Ballypin:

Hello! I am a new member of this club by picking up a Banzai Run. I have not read through this thread yet but am looking for repair info to get it working 100%. I just ordered TOP # 7 from Clay and am also looking for the System 11 repair guide. I know it is NLA but checking if anyone can point me in direction to purchase a copy.
Thanks in advance.

Congrats. Just start a new repair thread and Pinside shall help.

Best thing is to upgrade to NVRAM to get rid of batteries and then change all the capacitors on the power supply as a start.

Here is a general guide.
http://www.pinwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Williams_System_9_-_11

#2169 2 years ago

Added a sweet System 11 tonight. Bad Cats!

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#2170 2 years ago

Damn that's nice congratulations.

#2171 2 years ago

Congratulations......love that pin

#2172 2 years ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

Added a sweet System 11 tonight. Bad Cats!

Wow, and a Proto type back glass?!

#2173 2 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Wow, and a Proto type back glass?!

Wait, what? If you mean the one on the wall, that's a print. It's signed and numbered by Python Anghelo. I've had it for years and always wanted to add a Bad Cats pin next to it.

If that's not what you're referencing, I'm interested to hear about it

Chris

#2174 2 years ago

I'm in with 3 and working on number 4. First pin was Cyclone. Added a Diner and Pool Sharks.

#2175 2 years ago

I've owned three system 11 games. High-speed, rollergames, and whirlwind. Whirlwind is by far the best out of the three and the only one that I still own. I also own TAF and like WW better. I'm not surprised that the price on the game has increased quite a bit over the last couple of years. Hard to find a nice one sub 3k these days. Almost sold mine a couple years ago. Glad I didn't.

#2176 2 years ago
Quoted from SilverUnicorn:

Wait, what? If you mean the one on the wall, that's a print. It's signed and numbered by Python Anghelo. I've had it for years and always wanted to add a Bad Cats pin next to it.
If that's not what you're referencing, I'm interested to hear about it
Chris

I meant the print on the wall, I thought it was a proto . Still very, very cool

#2177 2 years ago

I bought a replacement spin wheel motor a while back for my Bad Cats. The original motor had these wires: pin 1 red, pin 2 brown, pin 5 green and pin 6 black.

The new motor has different wire colors: red, white, yellow and blue. I don't want to send some high voltage up a 5-volt line, how do I tell which wire replaces which?

Also, the U25 CMOS RAM is a Sony chip labeled CXK5816PN. Is that the same as a 6116? I'm looking to install a NVRAM and I just want to make sure I've got everything straight. U23 is a 2116 although the schematic calls for a 2016 at U23. This is the original CPU although it is a re-import if that makes an difference.

TIA,

Al

#2178 2 years ago
Quoted from Alan_L:

Also, the U25 CMOS RAM is a Sony chip labeled CXK5816PN. Is that the same as a 6116? I'm looking to install a NVRAM and I just want to make sure I've got everything straight.

Yep, same thing. All Williams System 11 games used a 6116 (24-pin chip). Even if the U25 chip isn't stamped on the top with anything remotely close to "6116" in the number, if it's 24-pin and at location U25 on a System 11 MPU -- it's a 6116. Replace with a 6116 NVRAM from your favorite supplier & you're good to go.

#2179 2 years ago

Thanks, Ace, I appreciate that.

Now if I can just figure out this wheel motor, I'll be in business.

#2180 2 years ago

Will a sys 11a power board work in any other system 11 revs? (11, 11b, 11c)

#2181 2 years ago

sign me up.

Have a Bk2000, big guns and recently fire. None of them playable yet. BG great condition, I think the thick layer of dust protected it.

#2182 2 years ago

bg is a great game. Regret moving mine on

#2183 2 years ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Will a sys 11a power board work in any other system 11 revs? (11, 11b, 11c)

I don't believe it will, but someone much smarter than me should chime in.

Chris

#2184 2 years ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

Will a sys 11a power board work in any other system 11 revs? (11, 11b, 11c)

A lot of games are compatable if you are more specific: I'd like to use X (x- part number) in such-and-such game, then we can advise more accurately.

These games all use the same supply:
ABC Monday Night Football, Algar, Alien Poker, Back to the Future, Banzai Run, Barracora, Big Guns, Black Knight, Blackout, Comet, Contact, Cosmic Gunfight, Cyclone, Defender, Disco Fever, F-14 Tomcat, Fire!, Fire! Champagne Edition, Firepower, Firepower II, Flash, Gorgar, Grand Lizard, High Speed, Hot Tip, Hyperball, Joust, Jungle Lord, Laser Ball, Laser Cue, Laser War, Lucky Seven, Millionaire, Pennant Fever, Phantom of the Opera, Pharaoh, Phoenix, Pin*Bot, Playboy 35th Anniversary, Pokerino, Pompeii (Shuffle), Road Kings, Robocop, Scorpion, Secret Service, Solar Fire, Sorcerer, Space Shuttle, Space Station, Star Light, Stellar Wars, Swords of Fury, The Simpsons (Data East), Thunderball, Time Fantasy, Time Machine, Time Warp, Top Dawg (Shuffle), Topaz (Shuffle), Torpedo Alley, Tri Zone, Varkon, Warlok, World Cup

#2185 2 years ago

It's a 5765-09466-01 out of a pinbot. I replaced one of the 1w 37k resistors after having a no display issue and was hoping there might be another pin I could test it in as I wont be able to access pinbot again for a few days.

Gorgar looks like it has another revision of the same supply, same input connectors but fewer outputs. No model number on it.

20180605_091750.jpg
#2186 2 years ago
Quoted from Chalkey:

It's a 5765-09466-01 out of a pinbot. I replaced one of the 1w 37k resistors after having a no display issue and was hoping there might be another pin I could test it in as I wont be able to access pinbot again for a few days.

You should be able to test it in your Gorgar. Some of the connectors are in different locations, so just refer to the manual diagrams.

#2187 2 years ago

I tried her out in Gorgar and the displays worked (although they're dissimilar from Pinbot / straight numeric I think it's a good sign). Thanks for the help!!

#2188 2 years ago

I am still struggling to get my Space Station board fixed. With Grumpy's and others help I had it to a point where it would boot and work fine, but only after the machine was powered on for 15 minutes, then would boot everytime. Also sometimes if I flexed the board a certain way it would boot.

I thought that was pointing to a cold solder, so I was looking for cold solders and reflowing some of the pins on the mpu. Now of course i cannot get it to boot at all, just the 5v led comes on. No flashes of the diagnostic led. Kind of lost now and not sure where to start.

So, I thought I would hook it up to an old desktop to bench test.

Question, is this normal? When I test the voltages of the power supply, I get the normal 5.1 volts. As soon as I attach it to the MPU pins, the voltage drops to 4.7, and at that level the board will never boot. Is that normal? Am I missing something?

Any suggestions on where to start with getting board to boot would be appreciated, as well as the 5 volt question from the desktop computer power supply.

#2189 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

As soon as I attach it to the MPU pins, the voltage drops to 4.7, and at that level the board will never boot. Is that normal?

No this is not normal, a chip on the board is bad dragging down the five volts or the power supply is not large enough to supply enough current to maintain the five volts. See if after being on for ten minutes if you can find a warm chip.

#2190 2 years ago

The only chips that have any extra heat are the 2 6802s at u15 and u24. They are not super hot, reading the highest on u24 around 100-105 F, with u15 slightly cooler. About 10F more than any other chips.

Quoted from GRUMPY:

No this is not normal, a chip on the board is bad dragging down the five volts or the power supply is not large enough to supply enough current to maintain the five volts. See if after being on for ten minutes if you can find a warm chip.

#2191 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

The only chips that have any extra heat are the 2 6802s at u15 and u24.

That is normal for these chips.

Quoted from jedi42:

the voltage drops to 4.7

What is the voltage at the power supply? Is your jumper wires large enough to supply plenty of current?

#2192 2 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

What is the voltage at the power supply? Is your jumper wires large enough to supply plenty of current?

GRUMPY=smart.

I was using 24 gauge wire, and once I switched to 18 gauge the voltage went from 4.7v to 4.95v when connected to the mpu. I am assuming that the 4.95v will suffice to boot a board?

Now where is the best place to start bench testing?

#2193 2 years ago

I've learned a lot over the years I've been restoring and repairing pinballs and have always been able to figure out my electrical problems. But each one still is a learning process. I am just amazed at the depth of Grumpy's knowledge! Glad you are here.

#2194 2 years ago

System 11 collection has grown to 2! Just added this beauty last week! SOOO HAPPY!

20180601_185932 (resized).jpg
#2195 2 years ago
Quoted from jedi42:

I am assuming that the 4.95v will suffice to boot a board?

This fine, did you hook up a 12 volt line too?

#2196 2 years ago

Yes, but no -12v as the repair guide I was reading suggests.

Quoted from GRUMPY:

This fine, did you hook up a 12 volt line too?

14
#2197 2 years ago

Finally! After about 20 years in storage (ten of them while I’ve owned it..) my Banzai Run is up and running.

This is the last of my complete set of the 30 Sys11 pins to be up and running.

So as of today, all 30 are running perfectly and available for play!

So chriss when you come back to NZ next time, you can play all of them!

rd

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#2198 2 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

Finally! After about 20 years in storage (ten of them while I’ve owned it..) my Banzai Run is up and running.
This is the last of my complete set of the 30 Sys11 pins to be up and running.
So as of today, all 30 are running perfectly and available for play!
So chriss when you come back to NZ next time, you can play all of them!
rd

Congratulations! Having all of those pins working in one spot is an amazing accomplishment.

#2199 2 years ago
Quoted from rotordave:

So chriss when you come back to NZ next time, you can play all of them!
rd

Sign me up.

Dave that is an amazing accomplishment. Now I'll never catch you. Now the real question with what the B Run's and Bad Cats command will you just sell them both?

#2200 2 years ago
Quoted from ChrisS:

Sign me up.
Dave that is an amazing accomplishment. Now I'll never catch you. Now the real question with what the B Run's and Bad Cats command will you just sell them both?

They’ve all gone way up in price since I bought them. Most have them have tripled.

I remember when I bought the Banzai around 2008ish. At the time, most of the Sys11s I was buying were 700-1200 NZ bucks. I heard a guy had bought 2x Banzais from an operator (he used to have 3x but one had been parted out). I knew of one other ... so maybe there are 3 in NZ.

So I got hold of him and eventually got him to sell me one. I think I paid $2400 for it ... which was a lot at the time, considering it didn’t work and didn’t have the backglass.

But I really wanted one ... Fiona and I used to play one when we started dating in 1999. Turns out this Banzai is probably that exact game.

At the time, I didn’t feel I had the talent to restore it the way I wanted it, so it sat folded up ever since. Now I’m down to my last few folded up games, it was time ...

Fun game to play ... we spent an hour playing it last night. The shots that were so hard 25 years ago are easy now ... but still fun to play.

rd

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