No.

kaz1961 Looks like you should be fine with early System 11 7-digit displays.

Does anyone else have an issue where the last digit on the top and bottom of the display all the way to the right blink or flash every couple of seconds. Not randomly like a dying display or bad connector, it’s def a pattern every couple of seconds it does it consistently I’ve changed our displays, all my connectors and cables, and reheated the mpu and reseated chips and it’s still giving me a headache. I’ve tried to record it but I can’t capture it on my phone because it’s like trying to record an old television and all you see is strobing

Anyone know what size screw holds the CPU in? Couldn’t find it in the manual.

My Pinbot is missing a few (system 11a)

Thanks

I dont know the exact size, but almost everything in pinball is 6-32 or 8-32 screws (just different types). Id pick up a pack of both. Im guessing its 8/32.

Thanks BrewNinja

I did order two different lengths of the 6-32 but they didn't fit. Has to be the 8-32.

No need to order, just go to your nearest home supply/hardware store. I think everyone has home depot, but any place similar will have machine screws. Save yourself a bunch of money

Yup and Ace Hardware has a good assortment too.

Here is 100 pack for 8 bucks with proper star washer. I think I might get a pack myself. Handy to have in pinball. ebay.com link: Steel Phillips Pan Head Machine Screw with star brace 8 32 x 1 2 100 Pieces

Dumb question: how do you guys solder coils directly below the playfield? I've been trying to redo the solders of my right flipper coil (on a Taxi, the flipper fuse keeps blowing and I suspect bad solders to be the culprit) but cannot get any decent solder done. Even with the help of someone else, it's freaking tricky to be precise. Note that I'm far from being a soldering expert.

Is there some secret technique I'm unaware of? Q

Are you lifting the playfield up?

Sorta sounds like you aren’t ....

Hopefully you are ...

Trick is to cut back the wires about an half an inch (15-20 mm) so you have fresh wire to work with. Clean all the old solder off the coil tabs with a solder sucker if you have one (or heat it up and wipe it quickly with an old cloth)

Strip back around 5-8mm of insulation from the wire. Wind the end of the wires together tightly to make a “rope” looking thing.

Apply a thin layer of solder to the wire. Just a little ...

Now slide this though the hole in the coil tab.

Now add more solder to both.

Soldering takes time to master — take your time and you’ll work it all out.

BTW I don’t think this will be the issue of your fuse blowing ... unless somehow it’s shorting out against something. Could well be a faulty coil which will need to be replaced.

rd

To add to rotordave, you also need flux. Getting things to stick without it can be nearly impossible otherwise.

Are you having an issue getting the old solder to heat puddle? Thats what Im guessing. It can be super tricky sometimes. Sometimes I have to kind of move the contact part of the tip, or try digging it in a little bit to get it to contact well enough to melt the existing solder. You can try putting a small bit of solder on the tip of the soldering iron before putting it on the old stuff to help get a good contact. Or try hitting it with some kind of abrasive to get off any old flux or oxidation.

If I get an area that is hard to reach or access is limited I use a pair of hemostats to hold everything together while I work.

Some old solder is rock hard. The trick is to hold the tip on there for 5 secs, then add some new solder to the tip (which melts instantly) on top of the old stuff, and that melts up the old stuff straight away.

Then suck off the lot with your solder sucker or wipe quickly with an old cloth.

The type of solder you use is important too ... I use Resin Core 60% Tin / 40% Lead. I haven’t used any flux for 20+ years. Don’t even own any these days.

And a good constant temp soldering Iron is a given. I have a chinese HAKKO copy solder station which was like $60 Usd on eBay, and it’s sweet.

rd

You are right, while flux isn't 100% necessary, especially when you are first learning, it makes things like 100x easier

Diner knocks and the displays don’t turn on when I power it up. Is it trying to tell me something?

Yep.

It’s saying “fix me”

rd

This is not always the fix, but it has corrected problems like this 3 out of 4 times for me anyway. Here is a cut and paste from an old thread.

Quoted from dozer1:
I might have a couple of games with similar issues. As long as I double click the toggle switch, everything will be OK and the games will boot without issue. If I just click the game on (like you should be able to do) a host of different things can happen. No display, bad noise from speaker, cleared high scores and settings, to name a few. This happens with my Taxi, Whirlwind, and F-14 sometimes. I will keep an eye on your thread for possible answers, otherwise continue double clicking as it is something I can live with.

The reset capacitor at C30 (a 22 uf electrolytic) can cause this. I have had mulitple games where they won't boot unless you flip the power twice and every time it was C30.

Had the same issue on my PF last year. I put the board on my test bench and checked C30 and sure enough it was out of spec. I replaced C30 and it fired right up.

Spent last weekend Zapcon in Phoenix AZ and I gotta say out of all the pins at the show the system 11’s were my favorite. There’s just something about the sounds, call outs and artwork of system 11’s that keep me coming back for more. I got to play Diner for the first time and really enjoyed the gameplay. They had two nice Taxis on display as well as an F14, Whirlwind, Cyclone Jokerz, Pinbot, Road Kings and Space station. Needless to say I’m on the lookout for more of these great games for my collection.

Yes, the playfield was lifted when I last tried. Still my issue is with keeping the coil upright + holding the iron + holding the solder.

BTW I don’t think this will be the issue of your fuse blowing ... unless somehow it’s shorting out against something. Could well be a faulty coil which will need to be replaced.

Yeah I also read the EOS were often the culprit for people who had the same kind of issue. But the solders are really bad so I want to dismiss this lead before changing the EOS and/or coil.

Will try to find some flux before trying again, it's not the first time I read it makes soldering much easier.

Thanks for the tips guys.

Solders done but the issue isn't fixed. It worked well for about 15-20 minutes then the fuse blew again. Upon taking a look at the coil, I noticed this brownish area. From your experience, could it be a sign of a damaged coil?

20180427_102057 (resized).jpg

It could also be a faulty end of stroke switch causing the fuse to blow. I had the same problem on my Whirlwind and that's what was causing it. Haven't had a problem since replacing it.

I checked the EOS gap and it looks OK, also cleaned it. Anyway, I'm going to put an order for pinball parts so I might as well add an EOS and change it while I'm at it. Thanks!

That coil looks fine. Why do you think its specifically that coil? My guess is its something else on that row or column shorting out blowing it. I would start looking around to other areas and make sure something isn't shorting out or touching something it shouldn't. Just throwing parts at it is a good way to waste money If its constantly blowing, instead of replacing the fuse every time, I would highly suggest getting a breaker so you can test. Makes it much easier to track things down without constantly replacing fuses.

I thought it's that coil because it is the coil of the only part that stops working once the fuse is blown. Didn't place my order just yet, so I'll do some more digging under the playfield.

When you say breaker, are you talking about something like that: https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/making-and-using-a-fuse-breaker ?

There is more to it then the gap when open.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/pinbot-left-flipper-blows-fuse-and-melts-lane-switch-plastic#post-3660333

I wasn't thinking this morning. Flipper isn't on the matrix Sorry about that.

Yeah, that kind of breaker is awesome when trying to track down issues.

If you’re placing an order, just replace it. $10.

Worse case, you have a spare coil.

I have had coils with weird shorts in them. Had one on a High Speed flipper recently, would go for a minute then blow the fuse. Replaced it, fuse hasn’t failed since.

rd

While I was in a finally-repairing-this-damn-pinball mood, I pulled out the interconnect board which always had connectors in bad shape, including one that's preventing playfield GI from working:

- J6 wires have always been soldered directly to the pins (working fine afaik)
- J7 always had 3 wires directly soldered to the pins as well (working fine afaik)
- J9 had a proper connector but one of the pin burnt at some point. When I tried to unplug the connector, the pin came with it (not working!)

Upon taking out the interconnect board, my plan was to fully replace J7 and J9 male and female connectors with trifurcon connectors. J6 I'm not sure, it sounds very painful to do this "looped" wiring (one wire shared by 2 pins) with trifurcon so I planned on just cutting them and use terminal block strips to re-assemble them (not touching the soldered wires which seem to work fine, although yes yes I know it's not the perfect way).

Anyway, now that I finally saw the back of the interconnect board for the first time, I don't think I'm up for the task with my beginner's skills in soldering. I did manage to successfully replace a pop bumper transistor once, but that's pretty much all I ever did as far as board job is concerned.

Pics are attached. Do you think I can pull this one off or I should send it for repair because the damage level requires expert hands?

Thanks!

20180429_172637 (resized).jpg

20180429_172651 (resized).jpg

20180429_172630 (resized).jpg

First off, you’ll never get good, if you don’t jump in and go slow.

Get all of your parts together before you start

Get solder braid, and wic (clean) up the solder around the pins. Use solder flux, it helps the solder flow better.

Get some locking foreceps to grip, hold and pull pins.

It doesn’t look like the solder pad is gone from the pin that pulled out, that’s a good sign.

Heat up each pin and pull them one by one when the solder is hot.

Clean up all of the holes really good before setting in the new sets of pins

Rebuilding an interconnect board is system 11 necessity. I have had a ton of system 11 and about all of them required work on that board. It really isn’t a hard job if you do like Chosen_S said and take your time

OK so I didn't know soldering braid even existed haha. This seems to make desoldering an absolute breeze. All I have is a cheap solder sucker for now but I will buy some soldering braid asap along with some flux. Dumb questions again:

When desoldering, I should first apply flux then desolder using the braid? Once the solder is gone and connector removed, should I clean the pads that had burnt pins? If yes, how?

Also, do you know what's the patch-up job on the top right of the third pic? The two wires connecting two different connectors.

It's a bypass because it looks like the line on the board is no good. Very common. Use very fine solder on the board and don't forget to OHM your work to make sure nothing is touching. Go for it you will feel great when you do.

You’re correct, apply flux, I use a q-tip., heat up backside of pin where the solder is, remove pin. Rinse and repeat for the rest of the pins. Place braid on the solder and heat up the braid, the solder will flow into the braid And remove it self from the board. Doing this enough will clean the solder pads. If you feel you need to do more cleaning to the pads, you can use a fiberglass pen to brush over the area.

Yes

I just got my next system 11 title Radical and I’m really enjoying it until just a bit ago. I went into coil test and got to a certain coil and I blew up the q14 transistor which is the coil for the upper sling which the game doesn’t have. I found the coil wires tied together with s bullet connector and figured it blew the transistor because they were connected. I’m assuming the previous owner never did a coil test or else this would’ve happened. I put 10 games on it and it was fine before coil test. I’ve removed the transistor and the pre driver Q10 out of circuit. I still blow fuse 4 on startup. Also I hear a coil fire when I switch on the game. The fuse I’m using is a 3 amp fastblow because I’m out of 2.5 slow blos

Change it to a 2.5 amp fast blow if you have one!

I’m blowing them at 3 amp. Guaranteed I’ll blow them at a lower value

I’ve tried using FB fuses of the same value where a SB would have gone and they blow within seconds. Get your hands on the correct amperage SB fuse and try it again.

Will do. Hopefully that’s all that’s wrong with it. Thanks

Why don't you use a ohm meter to find which transistor is shorted.

I did and I replaced it already

Not for this coil. You need to do another look see and find which coil this is.

These will need to be separated first and with a dead short like this the coil diode will need to be replaced also. If the coil diode has not been replace it maybe shorted causing the fuse to blow.

I will check everything when I get home. I did seperated the wires that were tied together. I noticed that right away like WTF? Those aren’t supposed to be connected.

I would start by disconnecting 1J11, 1J12 and 1J19. Then replace F-4 and turn on the power and listen for a locked coil and see if the fuse burns. If all is good then connect each connector one at a time to isolate which connector it is. Let us know your findings.

I can plug in 11 and 19. If I plug in 12 for a split second the kickback fires. I don’t leave it on long enough to blow the fuse.

Ok after testing all the transistors I have continuity at the tab and center leg and nothing to the outer legs from the tab, however on the one that burned up with no coil at its end I have continuity between the tab and center leg then on both outer legs my meter gives a quick beep and .5 on the meter. All others to the outer legs from center tab read OL. So the kickback read ok. I got the quick beep from the meter on the connector IJ12-8 to u17 position 8

If I check u17 bottom left leg I’m guessing that’s pin 8 I get solid beep to ground. If I check u18-20 next to it I get the quick beep but not the solid continuity beep like on pin 8 u17

Changing meters I found that I have continuity to ground on pin 7 and pin 8 on u17 if I’m reading pins right that’s upper furthest left pin and further lower left. The other chips do not read the same only upper left has continuity to ground