(Topic ID: 180520)

System 11 "Adjustment Failure"

By Niterider

7 years ago


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  • 34 posts
  • 10 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 7 years ago by Niterider
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders

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#1 7 years ago

I'm still chipping away at these small issues with my EatPM, but now a new one has popped up.

Earlier this week, I powered it up to get some more "play testing" in and I was treated with "Adjustment Failure". I found when I went to change the batteries that one of the batteries was soldered in as the battery holder had a bad contact.

I ordered a remote battery holder and today I pulled the board out and went about removing the old holder and put in the remote. Put the board back in the machine and....

Still getting the same error when I save changes and cycle the power on the machine. Set it to free play, pay a game or two, shut it off and turn it back on a couple of minutes later and the error is back.

I show battery power at the board. Reading some other threads here, I checked for power at the memory chip. I didn't show any power there. I also don't show any power at the diode. So I'm not sure if I have a broken trace or something else going on.

Question now is, do I continue trying to run this issue down, or do I just go with NVRAM? Maybe just go full replacement of the board with a Rottendog MPU? This board isn't horrible, but it does have some signs of the years on it. I attached a picture of some weird solder job by the ram chip, and the board does have some discoloration behind the ceramic resistors.

#2 7 years ago

If you're not comfortable with board work and the RAM chip is socketed, NVRAM is probably the way to go

#3 7 years ago
Quoted from zacaj:

If you're not comfortable with board work and the RAM chip is socketed, NVRAM is probably the way to go

Unfortunately the RAM chip isn't socketed. I'm comfortable enough to do small things like change a resistor or switching from a onboard battery holder to a remote battery holder. But I've not had to unsolder a chip before. First time for everything I guess...worst thing that can happen is I nuke the board and have to replace it.

This should be my last hurdle on this machine. I think I figured out the flasher issues, I've already gotten half of the non-working flashers going again. One problem was a dead resistor on the interconnect board. I replace that resistor and while going over the drawings I found another resistor that wasn't the correct rated resistor so I have one more to change out.

#4 7 years ago

Memory capacitor should be within your capability. Much easier to install.

#5 7 years ago

Well, if you're going to have the board out anyway I'd personally try fixing the battery wiring. The circuit is pretty much just one end of the batteries conneced to one end of D2 via a trace, and then the other end of D2 going to either D1 or the RAM chip. So just check continuity from your battery connection to D2, and from the other end of D2 to D1. If either don't have continuity, solder a jumper so they do. There's only one real possible problem (bad connection between two components), and it's easy enough to fix. Much easier than desoldering the RAM, at least.

#6 7 years ago

Does the game play? I had an issue a couple of months ago when I added a remote battery where when the batteries in, the AB solenoid would activate so only the B coils worked and the flippers didn't work. When I took a battery out I could hear the solenoid relax and all was normally. As I touched the battery to the contact I would hear the AB activate. Turned out to be the transistor in that circuit. The adjustment failure message occurred during this process until I replaced that transistor.

#7 7 years ago
Quoted from Lonzo:

Does the game play? I had an issue a couple of months ago when I added a remote battery where when the batteries in, the AB solenoid would activate so only the B coils worked and the flippers didn't work. When I took a battery out I could hear the solenoid relax and all was normally. As I touched the battery to the contact I would hear the AB activate. Turned out to be the transistor in that circuit. The adjustment failure message occurred during this process until I replaced that transistor.

The game plays fine.

I'll pull the board back out later this week and try to run down the trace.

#8 7 years ago

Where on the board exactly do you show power? Is it where you soldered the wire for the remote battery, or somewhere else?

#9 7 years ago

Test D2 for open both ways, if so replace it.

#10 7 years ago
Quoted from Niterider:

Unfortunately the RAM chip isn't socketed. I'm comfortable enough to do small things like change a resistor or switching from a onboard battery holder to a remote battery holder. But I've not had to unsolder a chip before. First time for everything I guess...worst thing that can happen is I nuke the board and have to replace it.

I would hate to hear that you may damage the board. Ship it to me and I can install and NVRAM and test out the board and ship it back for $25, includes return shipping. These original MPU boards are not easy to find and I hate hearing about any of them getting damaged.

Can you post a picture of the battery holder area, just to be sure there isn't any damage?

#11 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

I would hate to hear that you may damage the board. Ship it to me and I can install and NVRAM and test out the board and ship it back for $25, includes return shipping. These original MPU boards are not easy to find and I hate hearing about any of them getting damaged.
Can you post a picture of the battery holder area, just to be sure there isn't any damage?

If you are asking about any leakage damage, I didn't see any of that.

I'm going to pull the board back out in a few days and see if a trace has gone bad and try to put a jumper in if needed. If that doesn't work, I may take you up on that offer.

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#12 7 years ago

sys11 batt.jpgsys11 batt.jpg

#13 7 years ago

So once you have this working after moving the battery leads, I suggest moving to Lithium batteries as they are very unlikely to leak and will last 5+ years. Though, NVRAM will top that with a 23+ year life expectancy.

#14 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

So once you have this working after moving the battery leads, I suggest moving to Lithium batteries as they are very unlikely to leak and will last 5+ years. Though, NVRAM will top that with a 23+ year life expectancy.

Doh!

I had the board flipped over when I hooked up the leads....

#15 7 years ago

Yep, that did it. Switched the wires and that was it. Sheesh...

Anyone else do something really simple and spend hours trying to figure what else was wrong?

#16 7 years ago

I am just happy to see you do not have any battery corrosion on the board at this time. I highly suggest getting NVRAM to protect that board beyond your lifetime.

#17 7 years ago

Until you posted the picture showing the area did not have battery corrosion, I don't think it was on anyone's mind that the wires could have been in the wrong place.

Live and learn.

#18 7 years ago
Quoted from PinballManiac40:

Until you posted the picture showing the area did not have battery corrosion, I don't think it was on anyone's mind that the wires could have been in the wrong place.
Live and learn.

Yea, that's what I get for reading the schematics with the board flipped over.

#19 7 years ago
Quoted from Niterider:

Yep, that did it. Switched the wires and that was it. Sheesh...
Anyone else do something really simple and spend hours trying to figure what else was wrong?

More times than I can count. I've pulled the intake manifold back off because one of the new lifters was hiding, stuck in the bottom of the box.

You work on enough stuff you'll make mistakes. Just try not to make the same one twice.

#20 7 years ago

Ah...get a good game going, hit the replay....the cabinet knocker reset the game.

Sigh, it never ends.

Maybe I have the batteries mounted too close to the knocker. It's about 5-6 inches below it on that side of the backbox...

#21 7 years ago
Quoted from Niterider:

hit the replay....the cabinet knocker reset the game.

My Taxi had this problem awhile back. Knocker would hit, game would reset. I went as far as to remote mount the knocker. As long as it wasn't in the cabinet, the game didn't reset. It was the knockers vibration that caused the reset, but I couldn't figure it out. Sent the board to Chris Hibler and this thread tells the rest...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/solder-splashesbad

#22 7 years ago

NVRAM is looking better and better now.

#23 7 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

My Taxi had this problem awhile back. Knocker would hit, game would reset. I went as far as to remote mount the knocker. As long as it wasn't in the cabinet, the game didn't reset. It was the knockers vibration that caused the reset, but I couldn't figure it out. Sent the board to Chris Hibler and this thread tells the rest...
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/solder-splashesbad

You mean like this one? I figured it's been there since I've had this machine.

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#24 7 years ago

Could be it.

#25 7 years ago

What are the chances of two solder splashes causing game resets?

#26 7 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

What are the chances of two solder splashes causing game resets?

My initial response would be "seems pretty good".

I did a quick cleanup (radio shack solder sucker to the rescue) and with the glass off, just went for non-stop Monster slides until it hit the replay and the knocker fired. I did this twice, it didn't reset either time.

I'll "test" this some more tomorrow.

#27 7 years ago

Was this solved by cleaning up the solder splash Niterider ?

#28 7 years ago
Quoted from dozer1:

Was this solved by cleaning up the solder splash niterider ?

Yea, it seems to be fine now. I haven't had it reset since I cleaned up the splash. Its weird since I didn't do any soldering from that side of the board when I installed the battery remote.

Now if I can just figure out why these last few flashers aren't working...I've traced all the non-working flashers back to J12 on the CPU board. I have a good connection from the lamps all the way back to that connector. I guess my next step is to change out a few transistors and see if that get them going. I'm not sure what else it could be...

#29 7 years ago
Quoted from Niterider:

I guess my next step is to change out a few transistors and see if that get them going.

Before that, try grounding the metal tab of the TIP in question to see if the lamps light.

#30 7 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Before that, try grounding the metal tab of the TIP in question to see if the lamps light.

Tried that. Nothing.

While letting the test cycle around the coils/flashers, I did notice that the relay on the power driver board kicked with the working flashers...but it didn't kick when one of the flashers that are not working was up in the test rotation.

#31 7 years ago
Quoted from Niterider:

Tried that. Nothing.

Then its not a CPU problem, replacing Tips will not help.

Quoted from Niterider:I did notice that the relay on the power driver board kicked with the working flashers..

Do you mean Aux power supply, if so the A/C relay will only work for the first 8 flashers as the remaining flashers should have power 100% of the time.

#32 7 years ago

Does EATPM have warming resistors under the PF or in the backbox? Also watch out for flashlamps in series, if one bulb or socket is bad the none of the lamps in that series will work.

#33 7 years ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

Then its not a CPU problem, replacing Tips will not help.

Yea, that's what I figured that after trying to ground the transistors. I didn't know you could test them that way.

Quoted from bobukcat:

Does EATPM have warming resistors under the PF or in the backbox? Also watch out for flashlamps in series, if one bulb or socket is bad the none of the lamps in that series will work.

I've gone through the ceramic resistors and replaced a couple of bad ones on the interconnect board. That brought back a few other flashers that also wasn't working.

Flash lamps in series? Hmm...I checked the connections going from the CPU board all the way to the first lamp socket, but I didn't check the lamps themselves...I'll check that next.

#34 7 years ago

The flashers are wired in parallel, so that's not it.

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