(Topic ID: 15239)

Gottlieb System 1 power supply questions

By way2wyrd

11 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

Topic Stats

  • 23 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 11 years ago by pdman
  • Topic is favorited by 2 Pinsiders

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#1 11 years ago

Ok so im an EM guy but picked up a Joker Poker. Board work and testing is new to me but I can do anything, im not scerrd . Of course it doesnt work but thats to be expected with the games i buy.
I started in on this today and this is what i found
Based on Clays guide i tested the top connector. DC Voltage I got -12 on the right pin. on the two left pins Im supposed to get 5v but got .98 v using the capacitor for a ground

So I moved to the bottom connector im supposed to get from left to right AC Voltage
11v 11v 14v 14v 69v 69v

i get
11v 11v 14v 14v 34v 34v.

Im using the COM on pin 3 for the ground for the bottom pins.

the questions are. Am i testing the bottom pins correctly? If so and 34v is what im getting, where do i check next? The bridge rectifier? The transformer?

Im super new at boards so be gentle

Thanks,
Jeff

#2 11 years ago

I just tested my Bally Embryon rectifier board a few days ago so I can relate. First are those all DC voltages ? On mine some test points are DC and some AC. If you were measuring AC voltage with the meter set to DC the readings will be off.

The bridges can fail eventually. The transformer is much less likely to fail.

#3 11 years ago

If you need a system 1 power board I have a spare with the updated caps on it I can send. Just pay for the shipping

#4 11 years ago

Thanks Whridsoncestood. I may take you up on that. First tho i have to figure out why im getting half the voltage going to the power board on pins 6 and 7 on A2P1

#5 11 years ago

Do you have the schematic for the Power PCB or the system schematics for System 1?

69 vac is coming from the main transformer terminals 8 and 9 and is protected by a 1/4 amp fuse.
you should be able to find this looking at the main AC and DC distribution board in the bottom of the cabinet. the 69 VAC wires run to connector A2J2-6 and A2J1-7.

#6 11 years ago

Also Rottendog sells a replacement PCB for $75.

Ultimately your best bet is to just get a Pascal All in One PCB and be done with it.

As long as your contacts in the various connectors are clean or changed out and your AC and DC voltages are correct coming from the Main Ac / DC transformer board, the Pascal is the way to go.

#7 11 years ago

Can't visualize it right now. I will look at my boards tonight and see if I can remember everything when I was troubleshooting hulk. I remember testing all of those pins per clays guides.

#8 11 years ago
Quoted from pdman:

Ultimately your best bet is to just get a Pascal All in One PCB and be done with it.

This might be my final answer however this is a great learning tool for me and I need to do it to get better at troubleshooting SS games.

Ill check the transformer next to make sure its putting out 69v.

Is using the com 3 wire to black lead the correct one for testing the A2P1 with my DMM?

Thanks for teh help

Jeff

#9 11 years ago
Quoted from pdman:

Do you have the schematic for the Power PCB or the system schematics for System 1?

Never got an answer. Makes troubleshooting easier

Quoted from way2wyrd:

Is using the com 3 wire to black lead the correct one for testing the A2P1 with my DMM?

Not sure what a com 3 wire is

Quoted from pdman:

the 69 VAC wires run to connector A2J2-6 and A2J1-7.

TYPO: It should read the 69 VAC wires run to connector A2J1-6 and A2J1-7.

Post edited by pdman : TYPO

#10 11 years ago
Quoted from pdman:

Never got an answer. Makes troubleshooting easier

yes absolutely I have this info.

Quoted from pdman:

Not sure what a com 3 wire is

ok lets ask the question this way. When im testing the 69 VAC at the A2J1 connector, I am putting the DMM red lead on the one i want to test. Where should my DMM black lead go?

Quoted from pdman:

TYPO: It should read the 69 VAC wires run to connector A2J1-6 and A2J1-7.

no worries. I understood....

Thanks again for the advice and help

Jeff

#11 11 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

ok lets ask the question this way. When im testing the 69 VAC at the A2J1 connector, I am putting the DMM red lead on the one i want to test. Where should my DMM black lead go?

69VAC between A2J1-6 & A2J17. Red on one, Black on the other. The 34volts you got on each to ground before is reasonable & you probably have 69volts where you need it.

If/when you measure the DC outputs of the board, A2P3-1 & A2P3-3,measure against the ground on A2P3-5. Measure the other two voltages on A2P3 (pins 7 & 8 ) as well as the voltages on A2P2 (pins 1/2 & 6) against the ground on A2P2 (pins 4/5)

#12 11 years ago

Are you having issues with the game not working or are you doing clays suggested per start up tests?

#13 11 years ago

Bob thanks that makes sense. I'm good on the VAC in. DC on the
5 v to the CPU is Lo.

I'm going to replace the caps and see what happens.
Is there additional trouble shooting I should do before that?

Whridlsoncestood - the machine doesn't boot at all. No display either
I do get GI on the playfield tho.

I think the machine had been sitting in an ops warehouse for 30 years before I snagged it.
Luckily someone had already done the external battery mod.

#14 11 years ago

Ground mods need to be done. Have you defeated the slam switch. Clay's System 1 guide will explain. Do you have the Guide?

Is the 5 VDC low when not connected to the CPU PCB or only when connected to the CPU PCB. Do you have any external power supplies, bench supply , old PC supply?
If so you could use an external supply to power up the CPU PCB to see if it boots up.

I always check a system 1 with only the displays connected to the CPU see if it boots up or not. Then I attach the driver PCB. I use a stock Gottlieb CPU for most of my testing then when done use a Pascal.

Another nifty PCB that l I got was an eprom with jumpers that can be used in all System 1 games.
You just set the jumpers for each particular Pin. I don't think he sells them anymore.

#15 11 years ago

Im planning on doing the ground mods based on Clays guide. Slam switches are ok according to guide info as well/

The 5VDC is low when no connectors are connected to the Power Supply (except for the inpput of course)

I have some PC power supplies. How do i wire that up to create a bench for testing? Is there a guide for that?

Quoted from pdman:

Another nifty PCB that l I got was an eprom with jumpers

Is that an Item from Pascal?

#16 11 years ago

This page shows how to test a System 1 CPU on the bench. It uses a LED connected to one of the display lines to see if the CPU will boot.
http://home.scarlet.be/~nb010944/syscpu/esyscpu.htm

For a PS you can use a PC supply. Find the 5VDC, -12VDC and Ground and connect them to the CPU PCB either with clip leads or make a connector.

The Main site testing page in English is here
http://home.scarlet.be/~leonb1/eindex.html

and here is the Main Main page
http://www.flipper-pinball-fan.be/

Quoted from way2wyrd:

Another nifty PCB that l I got was an eprom with jumpers
Is that an Item from Pascal?

Yes it is but I don't think he sells them anymore. He does sell a Blank PCB to make your own but you will need the Eprom and I'm not sure if He supplys them or you have to burn your own. I believe it has something to do with violating the Gottlieb owners Rom code

#18 11 years ago

Excellent Information!!!!!

Thank you
Jeff

1 week later
#19 11 years ago

Good luck way2wyrd - Gottlieb System 1's can be a bitch to get working. Be prepared to rebuild ALL the connectors. And for this, I recommend getting new connector housings from Great Plains Electronics. Don't waste you time trying to use a pin remover tool to save a 0.29 part. Trust me on that...

#20 11 years ago

I have a large order of pins and connectors from GPE coming this week.

Better news is I have a pascal p1 x4 board coming as well

Im going to be able to work on my board repair skills but yet be able to play my game!!!

#21 11 years ago
Quoted from way2wyrd:

Better news is I have a pascal p1 x4 board coming as well

WINNER!! You will LOVE IT!! ....remember this exchange we had?

way2wyrd said:

So how do you like that pascal board

I *LOVE* it~!~! It adds a TON to the gameplay! I've just downed 6 beers and played Genie all night long. She's far from perfect (yet), but I just put the new rubbers on and got to play with her for the first time. (hehehe)

Regarding the new Pascal board - It adds a TON (or you can stay with stock), there's a new new skill shot, you can get more than one extra ball, there's an attract mode between games, it handles millions scoring, there's a 2nd chance for quickly drained balls (shot again light flashes for about 5 seconds), animated messages for some game events, ability to customize bonus scoring (including increasing the max bonus per ball from 29 thousand to 39 thousand), special and extra ball playfield lights flash, ability to save 5 high scores with player names or initials, credits for 2nd to 5th high scores, tilt warning ('DANGER' flashes in all displays after 1st tilt), customize some rules, power saving modes, etc.....

I'm a happy camper right now.

#22 11 years ago

Big +1 on that pascal. Best mod for any game. Makes the game so much better. All those features pluses GREAT diagnostics,kills power to any locked on coils. Checks all switches every time the machine starts up. Pascal did a great job with these and is well worth what he charges.

#23 11 years ago
Quoted from Whridlsoncestood:

Big +1 on that pascal. Best mod for any game. Makes the game so much better. All those features pluses GREAT diagnostics,kills power to any locked on coils. Checks all switches every time the machine starts up. Pascal did a great job with these and is well worth what he charges.

+++ for Janin Pascal and major Kudos to the Ni-Wumph Guys as well for pioneering the CPU replacement PCB. I remember talking to a respected Pinball tech in the late 80's. He was absolutely sure that no one would save the System 1 games from the junk yard. Well they were saved as we all know.

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