(Topic ID: 91393)

System 1 Blows 69v 1/4A fuse- FIXED

By btw75

9 years ago


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  • 19 posts
  • 3 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 9 years ago by pdman
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#1 9 years ago

I'm working on a System 1 that I bought not-working. I've got the power supply rebuilt and working with proper voltages, but can't figure out a fuse blowing problem on the 69v circuit. I've narrowed things down a bit - for it to blow, which it will continually, I have to have the following connections
1. power supply (A2J3) to displays
2. power supply(A2J2) to CPU Board (A1J1)
3. A1J3 plugged in connecting CPU board and displays (the lower of the connections to the displays)

All my displays are unplugged, as is the connections between the driver board and the CPU board. I've examined the wiring, the connectors, and the wiring jumper bakelite boards on the light board for shorts, but none found. I've also swapped CPU boards, but same result. Note: Neither CPU is known to be fully working, I just haven't gotten that far.

I'm lost at this point. Anything obvious to check? In the meantime I was going to try and verify the pinning of the connectors used, in the case that someone repined them wrong before I got the project.

Thanks in advance,
BTW

#2 9 years ago

First, start here:
http://www.pinrepair.com/sys1/index.htm

If you have A1J3 disconnected, does the fuse still blow?

Let's say you just have A2J3 from the PS to the displays connected. Does the fuse blow?
OK, with just power supply(A2J2) to CPU Board (A1J1) connected, does the fuse blow?
How about with just A1J3 connected to the CPU PCB. Does the fuse blow?

#3 9 years ago

Oh yes, all over that. Anything in particular you think I might be missing?

Quoted from pdman:

Let's say you just have A2J3 from the PS to the displays connected. Does the fuse blow?
OK, with just power supply(A2J2) to CPU Board (A1J1) connected, does the fuse blow?
How about with just A1J3 connected to the CPU PCB. Does the fuse blow?

No. I have to have those that I listed plugged in for the fuse to blow.

#4 9 years ago

btw75

That's what I'm asking. You say you need ALL 3 plugged in to make the fuse blow?
So any two combinations of connectors or a single connector plugged in does not blow the fuse?

So if power supply (A2J3) to displays and power supply(A2J2) to CPU Board (A1J1) are connected
the fuse doesn't blow? If you connect A1J3 connecting CPU board and displays does the fuse then blow?
BTW , do all your connecting and disconnecting of connectors with the Power OFF.

You may have a short somewhere also. Have you measured the +60 and +42 VDC for the displays to ground for a short? You also mentioned that you think the connectors may be mispinned. For that you could do a continuity check of A1J3 to the display connector.

If the displays are NOT Connected, does the fuse still blow when all three of those connectors are connected?

BTW, what System 1 pin is it?

#5 9 years ago

Thanks for the help-

Quoted from pdman:

That's what I'm asking. You say you need ALL 3 plugged in to make the fuse blow?
So any two combinations of connectors or a single connector plugged in does not blow the fuse?

Yes, That is what I'm saying. Correct.

Quoted from pdman:

So if power supply (A2J3) to displays and power supply(A2J2) to CPU Board (A1J1) are connected the fuse doesn't blow? If you connect A1J3 connecting CPU board and displays does the fuse then blow? BTW , do all your connecting and disconnecting of connectors with the Power OFF.

Correct. I've been connecting with the power off - SINCE I read warnings about that. Not sure though what might have been messed up by doing that or if it could be part of the problem.

Quoted from pdman:

You may have a short somewhere also. Have you measured the +60 and +42 VDC for the displays to ground for a short?

I checked the 60v, but not the 42v. It wasn't completely short to ground, I want to say there was about ~4k ohm resistance. Sound ok?
Will check the 42 tomorrow.

Quoted from pdman:

You also mentioned that you think the connectors may be mispinned. For that you could do a continuity check of A1J3 to the display connector.

I verified the ground and power connections and believe they are correct.

Quoted from pdman:

If the displays are NOT Connected, does the fuse still blow when all three of those connectors are connected?

Yes- All the displays are disconnected. I tried to find the minimum combination of connections.

Quoted from pdman:

BTW, what System 1 pin is it?

Torch

#6 9 years ago

No short from 42v, measured from power supply to end of 42v string at status display - about 10k ohms.

#7 9 years ago

Voltages rechecked, all seem great. Also rechecked plug configuration - All of those 3 must be plugged in to blow the fuse, and if they are, the fuse will blow within seconds.

Any suggestions welcome. I'm not too far away from starting to just buy new boards - I just wish that'd guarantee a fix! It seems though the problem must be related to a short in the display wiring... I do admit that I don't know what the appropriate resistance is between 60v and ground in that harness. Is ~10k normal or should it be OL?

#8 9 years ago

10k is fine.
Have you checked all of the three connectors to make sure that they are pinned correctly.
If A1J3 is disconnected what measure do you get for the +60VDC and the +42 VDC?

#9 9 years ago
Quoted from pdman:

10k is fine.
Have you checked all of the three connectors to make sure that they are pinned correctly.
If A1J3 is disconnected what measure do you get for the +60VDC and the +42 VDC?

Yes, pins look good.

Voltage wise? I get 60v & 42.8v.

Here is something I just noticed - the 5v & ground on the CPU board has ~220 ohm. Wondering if I damaged boards by plugging in connectors with the power on before I saw the warnings.

#10 9 years ago

Fixed. The Q2 was shorting to the back board in the powersupply. Not sure why that didn't cause an immediate fuse blow, but that took care of it. Now to troubleshoot displays - I get power to them but nothing there. I have plenty of back up boards so I don't mind swapping some chips but will try to find the actual issue first so I don't have to shotgun.

#11 9 years ago

btw75

Can you coin up, start a game?
Are all your displays out, even the credit/ ball display?
Are you getting the +4VDC and the +8VDC from the power supply?

Do you have at least one display that you know works?
Also the displays sometimes need to be degassed as explained in the System 1 Repair Guide.
I suggest degassing at least one display and see if that display works.

#12 9 years ago

Thanks pdman. I can't start a game either.

While I was troubleshooting I realized that I had not more 5v - it was down to 2.3ish. I had a solid 5v,4v,8v yesterday (and maybe earlier today), so I don't know what happened, but I've got a hunch that the big power transistor is flakey since this happened a day or two ago and reflowing the solder helped, but not this time. Since testing anything without a good power supply is worthless, I am going to take a break from this game and wait for the weekend when I can get my hands on a known good pascal all-in-one. That way I'll know if the displays and everything else is good.

In the meantime, I might replace that Q1 with a different one just to see if I can get that power supply back on its feet.

#13 9 years ago

Yes, the pascal all in one is one terrific PCB. Good idea on using that to troubleshoot. After I fixed my system 1 Pins, I always upgraded either with Pascal's CPU or All in One.
I did a post on how I repair the original System 1 PS. It's a pain to have to take out the pass transistor and then put in a new one and if you still have issues you need to rip it out again. My solution to this is simple. I'll look for the thread and post the link here.

#14 9 years ago

here's the post on fixing the system 1 power supply.

http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-system-1-power-supply-mod

1 month later
#15 9 years ago

Resolving this thread: I brought out the scattergun and just bought a GPE & Ni-Wumph CPU board.

#16 9 years ago
Quoted from pdman:

Yes, the pascal all in one is one terrific PCB. Good idea on using that to troubleshoot. After I fixed my system 1 Pins, I always upgraded either with Pascal's CPU or All in One.I did a post on how I repair the original System 1 PS. It's a pain to have to take out the pass transistor and then put in a new one and if you still have issues you need to rip it out again. My solution to this is simple. I'll look for the thread and post the link here.

I hate that power board setup! You better fix it right the first time you have it out or you will cussing up a storm at the engineer who designed it.

#17 9 years ago
Quoted from btw75:

Resolving this thread: I brought out the scattergun and just bought a GPE & Ni-Wumph CPU board.

So it's FIXED - Now NO DISPLAYS! ?? So is it fixed and the displays don't work or they do work?

#18 9 years ago

Sorry - the no displays comment was old. I'll edit that out. I ended up rebuilding the display boards as I had 2 or 3 bad 6118 chips and went ahead and replaced the capacitors. The CPU board didn't ever boot up and I just cried uncle and bought another.

#19 9 years ago

great, enjoy your pin

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