Sys80b Gottlieb Arena lamp driver issue & sound board issue

(Topic ID: 205522)

Sys80b Gottlieb Arena lamp driver issue & sound board issue


By smailskid

11 months ago



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  • 7 posts
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  • Latest reply 10 months ago by smailskid
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#1 11 months ago

I have a Gottlieb Arena that worked 100% until the lane change switch wire came unsoldered and came in contact with a lug on the flipper coil. This sent solenoid voltage through the switch matrix and that was it...GI would come on game but would not boot. I replaced RIOTs U4 and U6 and Z14 and Z12 and game will now boot... however it is a bit of a basket case.

During attract mode the Q (game over) and T (Tilt) relays are opening and closing in rhythm with the attract light show.

In lamp test, inlane and outline insert lamps on a given side will BOTH turn on and off (alternating every second) even though it should be testing only one transistor. Some lamps in lamp test will light two insert lamps (like they are shorted together). However when testing the transistor individually (shorting them to ground) they only light the appropriate lamp. Some insert lamps do not light at all in test but will light when transistor is shorted to ground.

So long story short here, they lamps test ok when shorting the transistors but some don't test correctly when using the lamp test feature. (and they are spread over multiple flip flops)

I am able to start and play a game (but there is no sound) and it plays mostly correctly.

Would be possible/likely that I would have a corrupted ROM? I have checked many other things but nothing yet. I do not have a eprom reader at this time.

Thanks

#2 11 months ago

Hi,

Quoted from smailskid:

... Would be possible/likely that I would have a corrupted ROM? I have checked many other things but nothing yet. I do not have a eprom reader at this time.
Thanks

No, probably not. Usually after high voltage injected on board, the EPROM is burn and don't work anymore. Corrupted/partially erased is less probable, because the CPU start and look to run normal (attract mode is working, test mode is available).

So, you have several lamps activated at same time, and Q/T relays during attract mode (that are driven like lamps L0 and L1), the culprit should be in the lamp matrix. As you individually test the transistors on the driver board, the issue is not here, but on the CPU board.

You say that you have also a sound problem, so the issue source look to be definitely in the U6 area on the CPU board.
During the attract mode, the lamps are lighted on/off quite randomly, but the first group (including L0/L1 Q and T relays) is normally, never activated. The strobe line DS1 is thus, never driven. But, as you notice it is, this means that there is a problem either at Z34 (less probably) or at the 74154 decoder (Z33), or even at the U6 port B.
For sounds, this may be one of the IC burned, Z31 or Z27 or even at U6 port A.
2017-12-20_11h21_25 (resized).png
Without a bench test fixture, difficult to identify the culprit, but... as you have already replaced U4 and U6, I suppose they are now mounted on sockets ?
Try to interchange U4 and U6 to see if the problem could be a defective U6.

May be, the problem is only U6 that is not well plugged in his socket. Check the pins states.

Even if your U6 is NOS, it can be defective (or partially defective, like some ports but not the ram/timers). This sometimes happen, so try to interchange U4 and U6 to see if the problem persist.

If this change nothing, then may be a short-circuit on the A/B ports or some burned IC.

#3 10 months ago

Thanks for the reply noflip.

I swapped out U6 again...no change. So I checked again the states of some surrounding chips. Sure enough Z34 had stuck pins, indicating it was bad. Now I was sure I checked this before but I must have missed it.

I swapped in a new one and bingo everything is back to normal...... except sound. I have no sound at all except for an occasional intermittent game sound (if you coin up you get some of the "growl" sound)

Originally when the short circuit happened and the game would boot, and was having issues noted in the first post (prior to replacement of Z34), I had almost every sound. I was only missing the background sound. As time has gone on I have lost all sounds.

I believe the problem to be on the sound board itself. Gounding the sound pins (s2, s4, s8, s16, s32) on the sound board connector produces no sound. The led on the sound board is not on (not sure if it is supposed to be). Yprom1 and Yprom2both become very hot after the game has been on, so obviously they have a short.

I am not sure what may have caused the Yproms to fail and get hot. I assume they need replacement but I would think something upstream caused them to fail. My schematic is not original and not really clear on the sound board section.

So get I assume I need new sound roms. Suggestions on what may have cause them to fail?

#4 10 months ago

Merry Christmas everybody.

So I have no sound because Sound board is not booting. LED is not on, but it does flash briefly at power up.

I verified voltages to the board and they are correct. I began looking at the two microprocessors on the board.

I tested the reset lines, the clock signal, the RDY, address and data signals. All appeared ok.

The IRQ line at pin however stayed high and never pulsed on either 6502 as it should. According to clays guide this is often due to bad Game code on the ROMS. The ROMS are toggling but the YRoms get very hot. The DRom does not.

Can I simply replace these roms? Or is it likely something else that is wrong and causing them to fail?

I guess I would like to know, other than exposure to light, what would cause a prom to fail (and get hot?)

Thanks for any help...

#5 10 months ago

Hi and Merry Christmas too,

Yes this can actually come from a faulty ROM. When these components heat up a lot, it is because they are usually dead.

Contrary to popular belief, the contents of a programmable component are never stored indefinitely.
Whatever the technology used, it can be said that in general, the programmable components all have a limited retention time. This is true for EPROM, EEPROM, CPLD, PAL, GAL ... that use "electron traps". But this is also true for some others technologies like fuse PROMs.
On the other hand the components programmed or configured "hard" are not affected, like the real ROM (masked ! and not PROM), the ASIC, VLSI.

By simplifying, for an EPROM, the electrons are trapped between two layers and can not escape. Unless we inject enough energy to release them.
Usually, UV radiation is used as a source of energy to release these electrons (and erase the EPROM). But in the long run, another source of energy can also have the same effect, such as sunlight, or even cosmic radiation (no, no, it's not a joke). More commonly, heat can also greatly affect the retention time (and it is also, by exposing the components to repeated high heat, that manufacturers determine the guaranteed duration of retention).

In fact, the electron trap can never be totally perfect and it happens sooner or later that there are some leaks.
For fuse PROMs, the problem is a little different, but also exists. I will not develop it here, but remember that the manufacturer Harris has experienced many setbacks with his first memories.

What must be remembered for our pinballs machines, is that beyond twenty years, it is not abnormal that an EPROM, a PAL or a PIC erase spontaneously.

Even recently and despite technological developments, a major manufacturer has produced programmable components with a retention time of only ... 5 years! Astonishing, yes, because usually it is rather 20 years, but it has really checked and some have had bad surprises.

Memory technology has its limitations, which in everyday life are largely sufficient. In many cases, the life of consumer products is well below 20 years and that is not a problem.

For the ARENA EPROMs, a simple reading in an EPROM programmer should make it possible to check whether they are good or corrupt.

#6 10 months ago

Thanks for the great explanation. I do not have a eprom reader but I did order to new Y rooms from Johns Jukes. They were so hot they have to be dead. I was just concerned that If I put new ones in I would ruin those as well without finding some external cause.

I didn't order the DRom as it was of normal temp. maybe should have ordered but I didn't. Hope I don't need it.

2 weeks later
#7 10 months ago

Got the two Yproms for the sound board. Sound board is now booting and playing all sounds. Thanks for the help guys.

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