(Topic ID: 246597)

Sys 3 Gottlieb not booting


By slghokie

6 months ago



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  • 21 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 5 months ago by slghokie
  • Topic is favorited by 4 Pinsiders

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Cactus Jacks repair U13 version 2 (resized).jpg
Cactus Jacks repair U13 (resized).jpg
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Gottlieb system 3 MPU partial schematic (resized).jpeg
Cactus Jacks repair U13 (resized).jpg

#1 6 months ago

Looking for some help after I tried alot of things. I have a Cactus Jacks that will not boot. I used the pinrepair and pinwiki to do the following:

Removed battery, changed to button battery, cleaned corrosion
Corrosion was on U13 and U10 so cleaned, socketed and replaced the chips
Under U13 there was broken trace from pin 6 ultimately to the LED (see enclosed pic)
After that I would get solid light on MPU and nothing or one solid light on Sound board

Then I replaced the C20 and C21 with 1mf 50v ceramic caps
After that I would get solid light on MPU and nothing or one solid light on Sound board

Then I socketed and replaced U11 with 74HC123E
After that I would get solid light on MPU and nothing or one solid light on Sound board

Then I socketed and replaced U6
After that I would get solid light on MPU and nothing or one solid light on Sound board

The 4mhz crystal still has corrosion, so I plan to order that and replace

Pushing the switch on MPU gets light to blink then return to solid. Switch on sound board does nothing

I have 5v on the MPU, Pin1 on U6 has 5v and pin 2 has the battery voltage

So basically I have a solid MPU LED and no boot.

First question is: the broken trace "Under U13 there was broken trace from pin 6 ultimately to the LED (see enclosed pic)".....is this correct or does this trace not connect in this way? It was the only thing I did outside the repair guides

Next things I will try:
replace R5 and R6 with 680 ohm resistors
replace 4mhz crystal (need to anyway due to corrosion)
Got the test rom from Marco @MarALB (thank you again!), and will have that burned and use it

Anything else I am missing or any other fixes for solid MPU LED after all I changed?

Cactus Jacks repair U13 (resized).jpg
#2 6 months ago

I have a Stargate MPU not booting. My symptoms are
sound and speech boards have LED not lit and MPU and DMD controller are constantly lit.

I replaced U3 with NVRAM (https://www.pinitech.com/products/gottlieb_sys3_nvram.php) and jumpered U6 as required for it, but problem still exists.

With power off and I unplugged MPU connector A1J4, now the sound and speech boards boot up with the normal blinking but the MPU and DMD controller are still constantly lit.

I noticed on A1J4 when connected, pins 1-8 are 5v and pin 9 is only 3.8v and pin 10 looks to be zero.

I'm trying to locate a MPU that i have that boots, but has no controlled lamps to see if A1J4 results are normal or not. So far, I can't find that board.

#3 6 months ago

I found the MPU that boots but has no controlled lamps.

So A1P4 pin 10 is the signal that is important to boot up. It should be 5volts on this pin, not zero. Pin 9 matches 3.8v on both boards.

From there, I went to U18. Pins 9 to 13 should all be 5Vdc. I found on my Stargate MPU that will not boot, pin 9 is zero volts. So this U18, 74HC74 looks to be the fault on my MPU.

Do you have a meter to test out U18 pins 9 to 13? Just wondering if you have the same symptoms.

Edit. Fault remains after replacing U18. I need to look more into why U18 pin 9 is stuck low.
Gottlieb system 3 MPU partial schematic (resized).jpeg

#4 6 months ago

If U18B output stays low then there are two reasons for it to stay low (assuming the part is good and nobody on his outputs is holding it low).
1 -- his reset line is getting held low (pin 13) then pin 9 will be held low. Sounds like this isn't the case.
2 -- he isn't getting a clock pulse. His clock pulse is sourced by a registered out pin on U4 (software is clearing this reset to external devices). This pin is replicated at the watch dog timer. If the pulse is absent for too long (either high or low) then it resets the CPU.
Pin 11 cannot be 5V - it needs to actually be a clocking signal which is continuously resetting the watch dog timer.
For this you really need a logic probe and see if there is also this clocking signal at pin 11 of U13 -- compare U18-11 to U13-11, they should be identical.

And there can also a third reason for it to stay low. An external source (one of the other boards) connected to A1P4-10, A1P2-12 or A1P3-12 is holding it down.

#5 6 months ago

Put your Voltmeter over C19 on A1 and adjust the 5v potentiometer R3 on A2, be care to not pull it over 5,1V...R3 is increasing rapidly.
20190707_204444 (resized).jpg

#6 6 months ago

Mine is at 5.09. I know I have a bad MOU as I tested it in a friend's game.

Thank you, Ed. I will follow your advice with a logic probe.

#7 6 months ago

Can anyone validate if: the broken trace "Under U13 there was broken trace from pin 6 ultimately to the LED (see enclosed pic)".....is this correct or does this trace not connect in this way? It was the only thing I did outside the repair guides
Cactus Jacks repair U13 (resized).jpg Added a second picture to detail it better

Cactus Jacks repair U13 version 2 (resized).jpg
#8 6 months ago
Quoted from Benhurr:

Put your Voltmeter over C19 on A1 and adjust the 5v potentiometer R3 on A2, be care to not pull it over 5,1V...R3 is increasing rapidly.
[quoted image]

Thanks benhurr I tried this also and it did not change anything.

#9 6 months ago

Last night I unplugged A1P4 and the sound cards will boot and LED flash correctly. The MPU LED was still solid.

#10 6 months ago
Quoted from slghokie:

Last night I unplugged A1P4 and the sound cards will boot and LED flash correctly. The MPU LED was still solid.

Ok great. That is the same symptoms I have with my MPU.

#11 6 months ago

Is your button batterie new? U8 chip on display board could be the problem...

#12 6 months ago
Quoted from Benhurr:

U8 chip on display board could be the problem...

My DMD controller board boots fine (rules out U8) in another game but the CPU board does not.

#13 6 months ago

After bad work on 5v board I burned the controller board...change U8 but nothing better so I change every chips and components but nothing better so I pull of the sticker on U3 and the glass was broken so I bought a new one and A1 works perfectly now

#14 6 months ago

Game ROM tested and booted fine in another CPU board.

#15 6 months ago

If I remember...somebody who got the same problem made a post a long time ago and he change the U16 chip on A1
I also advise you to change ribbon cables...if you not already done and wright it on this post....Sorry as I am French it take much time to re-read all the post so...
Good luck

#16 6 months ago

A friend burned me Marco's test ROM and I tried it last night. Seems my 6116 memory may be bad as the test did not execute. So I ordered new memory/socket and will also change the corroded crystal, change R5 and R6 and retry the test rom.

#17 6 months ago
Quoted from slghokie:

A friend burned me Marco's test ROM and I tried it last night. Seems my 6116 memory may be bad as the test did not execute. So I ordered new memory/socket and will also change the corroded crystal, change R5 and R6 and retry the test rom.

I had already installed NVRAM and that did not fix my board.

1 week later
#18 6 months ago

Received my Marco's order. Replaced the 4 MHZ crystal, socketed and replaced the 6116 memory. Put in the test rom and I get quick 5v flash on test LED and nothing after that. The sound board will boot with 2 blinking lights (alternating). Sometimes I have to hit the switch on sound board and once I did not. But MPU still has the solid LED on the board. I suppose the 6116 could be bad...but since all the other symptoms are the same as before it feels like the problem is something else. Any thoughts?

#19 6 months ago

Replaced the GPROM socket. Then I overrode the Dallas 1210 chip with jumpers pins 1-8 and 5-6, but result is the same that MPU LED stays on. Still can turn LED on and off with MPU switch. Sound board will boot in this setup if I push the switch on sound board. I looked the board over for broken traces and cold joints but did not see anything. I tested all caps and resistors for continuity and there were 2 caps C4 and C5 that would briefly give me continuity sound when I first touch each end and then it would stop. Had to redo my jumper from U13 pin 6 to the LED as it was inconsistent, also in that picture is one raised trace but it appears to go to the pin next to it and has good continuity to other points on the board. About at wits end here as I have replaced and tried everything from repair guides and test rom/advice from maralb.....not sure what to do now as nothing I change gets a new result.

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3 weeks later
#20 5 months ago

Called in a pro, thanks Chris Hibler!

Turns out U12 was dead. Seems at some point I put the wrong chip in U13 (first time was correct but I monkeyed with them all thinking some were bad). But either way U12 kept it from going. He also cleaned up the corrosion more. Waiting for the board to come back and try it in my setup. Will let you know what happens

#21 5 months ago

Received the repaired board and installed into the game. MPU boots, and sound board appears to boot (lights alternate flashing and heard squelch). However there is no game sound. Checked the volume pot and speakers are connected. So will research that next.

The display works and I can go into test but cannot adjust settings. Do not see controlled lights yet or solenoids but I need to put the shooter rod back on and reconnect a ground. Also, the coin door did not have a tilt switch. I put a micro switch on those connectors and I can manually trigger/release it so that is ok. Also need to check the driver board and get test to fully work. But much better shape than before.

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