(Topic ID: 245099)

Swords of Fury - Fuse F7 blows


By nibre

4 months ago



Topic Stats

  • 32 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 days ago by GRUMPY
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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IMG_20191020_153905 (resized).jpg
aux 50V.jpg
D16 (resized).jpg
IMG_20190925_170741 (resized).jpg
IMG_20190925_171644 (resized).jpg
IMG_20190925_171633 (resized).jpg
F7 (resized).jpg

#1 4 months ago

Swords of Fury: The fuse F7 (4 A slow-blow, Aux Pwr Driver Board) blows directly when the machine is started.

The flippers don't work after that (but the electronic flipper sound is heard when the flipper buttons are pushed). According to a repair page (http://techniek.flipperwinkel.nl/wms11/index2.htm), the flippers should work but be weak if F7 has blown. But in my case, they don't work at all.

Any suggestions?

#2 4 months ago

Bridge rectifier BR1 is blown.

#3 4 months ago

Isn't it BR2?

F7 (resized).jpg
#4 4 months ago

yeah, bad copy on my part.

3 months later
#5 28 days ago

So, I finally replaced BR2 but the problem remains. Fuse F7 blows directly when the machine is started.

Any other suggestions?

#6 28 days ago
Quoted from nibre:

Any other suggestions

Remove f-4, 5 and 6. Replace f-7 and turn on the power. Does f-7 blow now?

#7 27 days ago

I removed F4, F5 and F6. They are supposed to be 2A. F4 was 15A (!). F5 and F6 were 2A. I will replace F4 with 2.5A (do not have a 2A at home).

F7 still blows during startup.

#8 27 days ago

WOW.

Quoted from nibre:

F7 still blows during startup.

Remove C-1 and retest the same way. Is it possible that you installed the new bridge incorrectly. The new bridge could also be DOA too. Is there anything connected to J-9 header? Not much else that can go wrong here. Post a pic of both sides of the board.

#9 27 days ago

I should perhaps mention that when I had just bought the game, everything worked as it should for 5-10 games. Then, F7 suddenly blew.

BR2 is installed properly (can only be done one way because of the unsymmetric placement of the legs). I also tested both the old and the new bridge rectifier with a multimeter and both were ok.

Nothing is connected to J9.

I have not yet removed C-1.

Here are images of the board (before replacing BR2).
IMG_20190925_170741 (resized).jpgIMG_20190925_171633 (resized).jpgIMG_20190925_171644 (resized).jpg

#10 27 days ago
Quoted from nibre:

BR2 is installed properly (can only be done one way because of the unsymmetric placement of the legs). I also tested both the old and the new bridge rectifier with a multimeter and both were ok.

I was just checking as I have seen a bunch weird things in pinball.

Then pull the cap and retest.

#11 23 days ago

Ok, so I desoldered one of C1's legs and reattached everything.

F7 still blows!

Could it be C2 or R9? Or something further down the line?

#12 23 days ago
Quoted from nibre:

Could it be C2 or R9? Or something further down the line?

Yes, c-2 or r-9 or the bridge rectifier. Sometimes things test good and are still bad.

#13 21 days ago

I desoldered R9 and tested it: 3.1 kohms (within the 10 % range of 3.3 kohms).
I desoldered C2
C1 was already desoldered.

The same thing happened again: F7 blows directly when the machine is started.

It has to be something else.

BR2 provides the 50V DC (tranformed from AC), right? And this DC goes to the flipper coils, the slingshot coils etc, correct? Could it be a short circuit somewhere along the cables and connections leading to the coils?

#14 21 days ago
Quoted from nibre:

BR2 provides the 50V DC (tranformed from AC), right? And this DC goes to the flipper coils, the slingshot coils etc, correct? Could it be a short circuit somewhere along the cables and connections leading to the coils?

You have f-4, f-5 and f-6 removed, correct? You have nothing connected to J-9? Then the bridge rectifier has to be bad.

#15 21 days ago

No, after the check earlier I put F4, F5 and F6 back.

Should I remove them one at a time and try starting the game? Will that help tracking the problem? Or should I remove all of them?

#16 21 days ago
Quoted from nibre:

No, after the check earlier I put F4, F5 and F6 back.
Should I remove them one at a time and try starting the game? Will that help tracking the problem? Or should I remove all of them?

Just pull all 3 fuses just so we know that f-7 and the bridge rectifier is good when you turn on the power.

#17 20 days ago

F4, F5, F6 removed and C1, C2, R9 desoldered.

F7 still blows!

Could it be the rectifier after all?! (both the old one and the new one...)

I measured the old one again with the multimeter:

Red to minus and black to AC: 0.6 Mohms
Black to plus and red to AC: 0.6 Mohms

red/black both to AC (in two ways): no connection

red to plus and black to minus: no connection

red to minus and black to plus: 1.4 Mohms

The old one is CBR35-020W and the new one is KBPC3510W

#18 20 days ago

The factory part is a 35 amp 200 volt. bridge rectifier. The new one is a 35 amp 1000 volt bridge rectifier. Cut the bridge rectifier off and replace the fuse and retest.

#19 19 days ago

After desoldering the rectifier, F7 doesn't blow. How could it, there is nowhere for the current to go now.

I also checked the new rectifier after desoldering it:
Red to minus and black to AC: 0.5 Mohms
Black to plus and red to AC: 0.5 Mohms
red/black both to AC (in two ways): no connection
red to plus and black to minus: no connection
red to minus and black to plus: 1.1 Mohms

I really don't know where to go from here...

#20 19 days ago

Have you checked for shorts on the connectors involved? Didn't review entire post to see if you've already powered up with the connectors disconnected to the outputs.... remove as much as possible from the circuit (ideally, you should just have the bridge in the circuit with the cap if possible.... check for fuse blowing (possibly build a circuit breaker type fuse in there to save some $$$ on troubleshooting here, or rig up a bulb like some do). Depending on the circuit you might have to remove connectors from the housings to isolate the circuit, but most IIRC have separate input connectors from the outputs.

#21 19 days ago

Sometimes electronic parts only breakdown when voltage is applied. Try a new bridge rectifier.

#22 19 days ago

Ok, when I try a third bridge rectifier, should C1, C2, R9 and F4-6 be attached or should I try without them?

#23 19 days ago
Quoted from nibre:

Ok, when I try a third bridge rectifier, should C1, C2, R9 and F4-6 be attached or should I try without them?

Try without them, power up and check for voltage at f-4 fuse clip. Should get @74 volts.

1 week later
#24 9 days ago

I have a new rectifier (35A, 600V) and soldered it into place (the third one I am trying).

F4-F6, C1, C2, R9 removed. F7 still blows at startup!

Tried removing J12: F7 still blows

Put J12 back and tried removing J11: This was a HUGE mistake. Because at startup D16 blows (with a bang and a little fire)! See image.

I will have to replace D16 (1N4003). I have 1N4004 at home. It works just as good, right? Could something else have been destroyed? After cleaning the area, the other components look ok.

This problem is driving me crazy!

D16 (resized).jpg
#25 9 days ago
Quoted from nibre:

. F7 still blows at startup!

Don't forget that through wire W3 more components are connected to the 50V power, marked in violet.
That means that all components in green must be checked for shorts.

Varistor VR1, capacitor C5, and a few diodes + tip36c transistors that could be shorting.
aux 50V.jpg

#26 9 days ago
Quoted from nibre:

This was a HUGE mistake.

Maybe not. You may have found your issue. Manual says this is the left outlane kickback coil solenoid #14, powered by Q-5 and D-16. This is a 50 volt coil and should have been disconnected when you removed fuses F-4, 5 and fuse F-6. But some how it still had power.

#27 9 days ago
Quoted from zaza:

Don't forget that through wire W3 more components are connected to the 50V power

I don't have a board in front of me to look at, but shouldn't this be after the fuses?

#28 9 days ago
Quoted from GRUMPY:

shouldn't this be after the fuses?

Wire W3 is directly connected to the (+) of bridge BR2 so only fuse F7 could blow from a short from Vr1, C5....

#29 8 days ago

I have replaced D16 with a new one (IN4004). I measured it first and it was ok.

Before starting to desolder the components in the green circles above, I did som measuring on the diodes:

D15: appr 500 / 800 ohms (two directions)
D3: 900 / 800
D4: 900 / 800
D6: 800 / 800
D7: 800 / 800
D5: 500 / 800
D22: 800 / 800

But:
D16: 3 / 3 ohms

Could this mean that Q5 is broken?

#30 8 days ago
Quoted from nibre:

Could this mean that Q5 is broken?

I would replace Q-5 , D-16 and check the kick back coil for the correct ohms. Also make sure that there isn't a diode on the kick back coil. After removing Q-5 and before replacing it you can do an ohm test on the back of the board, measure the solder pads where C-1 was located. Should read OL or very high resistance.

#31 3 days ago

The kick back coil has no diode and its resistance is 4.5 ohms.

The broken D-16 has been replaced earlier.

I removed Q5 and measured it. It was broken (zero resistance in all directions). (By the way, it was very difficult to desolder it because there are three legs and for some reason they have been made very short during factory soldering. This fact made it difficult to desolder one leg at a time, even while using a solder sucker).

I have put a new Q5 (TIP-36C, which I tested first) in place and now everything seems to work!

I have been playing a few games and the kick back coil has been activated several times without any problems. Hopefully, it stays this way. I wonder though, why Q5 broke in the first place.

Thanks for the advice and guidance!

Finally, Swords of Fury is such an underrated game with great music!

IMG_20191020_153905 (resized).jpg
#32 3 days ago

Sometimes things just break. Glad you got this working.
Playball!

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