(Topic ID: 108224)

Swords of Fury Custom Ramps

By Freeplay40

6 years ago


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  • Latest reply 27 days ago by dashv
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11
#1 6 years ago

I plan to make custom clear and colored ramps for Swords of Fury soon. I wanted to start a thread specific to this project as I am looking for input from the group. I have recently created a clear ramp for High Speed which eliminated the ramp cover as well as both clear and dark transparent blue ramps for Space Station.

User, Nelly, was kind enough to loan me one of his SOF ramps to use for modeling my own. I will be interested in any tweaking of the current design to improve it as well, and probably more importantly, what colors would be desired. This game is unique in that it has one ramp over another.

Christopher Hutchins had provided a link to his restoration of a SOF and I was pleased to see there is nothing "ugly" under these ramps. In fact there is a good deal of lighting that will nicely illuminate transparent ramps.

http://christopherhutchins.com/gallery/album204/14_G

Some input I got in the New Space Station ramps thread had indicated some desires on colors for the ramp. I plan to make the upper ramp available in at least in red, clear and blue. The interesting part will be perhaps a combination of the colors in the two ramps.....Both one color.... One clear and one colored.... quite a few possibilities.

The Space Station ramp, as far as colored, was done in a dark transparent blue. Some of you have seen this first hand, but for reference I've attached a photo of the blue stock I used as well as the new dark transparent red I will use.

Nelly also provided me with some photos of the lower ramp to present....uh, so you don't have to remove your upper ramp to see it. Those are posted here as well.

I've also attached a photo of the upper ramp removed. There is a lot of "stuff" attached (riveted) to this ramp, so I expect I will offer assembly service like I did for High Speed for this one, for those that do not have a rivet press... BTW...if you are interested in building a rivet press, I will gladly show you what you need, where to source the parts and how to make one.

The SOF ramp is next up after I complete the one I'm working on forming now.

I wanted to get this post out, I guess a little early, as I am very interested in what you think for colors. For clear I use PETG...for colors I use acrylic. PETG is far more durable than acrylic but generally not available in colors...unless I order around 2,000# and that is from overseas.. Acrylic is similar in durability to the original black ABS. I can add some ramp protection to the acrylic ramps once the areas prone to damage are identified.

Plastic colors.JPG
Lower ramp 2.jpg
SOF Ramp 1.JPG

#3 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinthetic:

I think the red would be a great choice.

Looking at Nelly's photos, might be an option to paint the diverter black to take it out of the equation. Also agree that given the wiring, etc on the bottom of the ramp that color for the top one is almost a no brainer. Also maybe "tube" the wiring harness to clean it up. Not much I could do about the wire form ramp brackets, but might be able to cut a piece of Clear PETG to replace the long bracket that secures the ramp to the diverter.

#6 6 years ago
Quoted from NorCalRealtor:

Nevet been a fan of black ramps. I think transparent or red transparent would look sweet.

You don't really notice how dark they are until they are gone!

#9 6 years ago
Quoted from AndyBadCatsUK:

I would be interested in both ramps. I do hope you ship to the UK when you have decided on colours. Black or deep ruby red suit me fine.
Any pictures needed to help from my end just ask...great

I shipped a couple Space Station ramps to the UK a couple weeks ago that got there fine. Shipping for those was $30. Might be a little more for the SOF ramps due to a bigger package. What I do is go to the post office with a similar package and a UK address and they can quote me the postage.

#22 6 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

I'm in for sure (as noted in the Space Station thread). Transparent red is what I'll be wanting. How would the assembly service work, and what do you think the cost would be? Would we be shipping our ramps to you and using existing parts or would it be new parts? As for the wiring, individually braided cables look really nice, even just when zip tied in place. I use them all the time in my liquid cooled computers.

I did the assembly for High Speed for $20 with folks sending me the necessary parts from their playfield. Might be $25 for this one but certainly no higher. Some guys did want to send me the whole ramp to disassemble which I gladly did, but I charged an additional $5 if they wanted the original shipped back.

#23 6 years ago
Quoted from MarcelG:

I would say:
Deep Translucent (ruby? crimsom?) red for the magic tunnel ramp.
Smokey Translucent (a bit darker than Addams Family) for the LIONMAN/Diverter ramp.
Please, not clear, and definitely not blue. SoF is not a "blue" game".

At least out the gate, available colors will be red, blue and clear. Generally don't do black (ABS) but probably will .

#26 6 years ago
Quoted from agodfrey:

I could def use a main ramp (the one with the diverters). What's the estimated shipped cost?

$15....$20 Max

#27 6 years ago
Quoted from Freeplay40:

I did the assembly for High Speed for $20 with folks sending me the necessary parts from their playfield. Might be $25 for this one but certainly no higher. Some guys did want to send me the whole ramp to disassemble which I gladly did, but I charged an additional $5 if they wanted the original shipped back.

Side note... If anyone is interested in assembling their own rivet press, I will gladly pass along the info to do it. All in it's probably around $100. 1/2 ton Arbor press from Harbor Freight (On sale right now for $39.99) and then a couple rivet dies for about $50 (Hanson). You would need a drill press to modify the arbor press. Rivets run around $.07-$.08. I order rivets in lots of 100 from Jay-Cee Sales.

#30 6 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

I think that will work out good for me. If I thought I was going to have more future use for it, I would probably build my own rig for doing rivets, but I think it will probably be just this one SYS11 game for me for quite a while so the value in my own tool isn't really there.

For you non domestic US guys, if you want me to do the assembly, would probably be best when the time comes to just ship me the necessary parts (I will detail them at some point) and then avoid shipping the old ramp back...just to save postage each way. I expect when I'm ready I will be able to turn these back in just a day or two....Usually just one day, but there is always the initial rush.

#40 6 years ago
Quoted from toasterman04:

what do you estimate the cost will be on these

I don't really think too much about price until I have actually gone through the process...But if I had to estimate right now, I'm thinking for the upper ramp, probably $125 for the clear and $135-$140 for the colors. For the lower ramp if that is wanted, we'll try to keep that one cheap...maybe $30-$35. Clear will be PETG and the colors will be acrylic.

These estimated prices do not include the assembly if you want me to do it or the return shipping.

#41 6 years ago

As far as black ramps, I have not formed ABS before but should be no big deal...So IF I do black ones they would price the same as the clears.

3 weeks later
#47 6 years ago

I should be on these in just the next couple weeks.

#50 6 years ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

sealed the deal on a SOF today....... let me know as soon as these are available , I'm in for a set

Congrats!

4 weeks later
#55 6 years ago

I have been struggling with the Genesis Ramps but hope to wrap up soon and get them produced. Then on to the SOF!

#60 6 years ago
Quoted from flyhigh:

add me to the list of pinsider's interested in new ramps for SOF

Quoted from vster23:

add me to the list of interested for the SOF ramps.

On the list!

#64 6 years ago
Quoted from BALL_LESS1:

Please add me to the list. I'll probably go red.

On the List!

Already on the list!

#66 6 years ago
Quoted from agodfrey:

IS it pretty common for the ramp to break at the second diverter? I found one on Ebay with some plastics (seemed like a really good deal) but the ramp was cracked at the second div!?!? Weird.

Honestly, I don't know. All games can be a little different. Is there sufficient clearance for the diverter arm?... Is it hitting the ramp?

#76 6 years ago
Quoted from Blairally:

Mine is also broke at the second diverter, sounds like a common failure point, perhaps needs to be a made a little thicker around there

Could you post a photo of the break? On the Space Station ramp I did, there was a place that I thought could be "fragile" so I added a bead of acrylic cement.

#78 6 years ago

Thanks for the photo. The model I am using is also cracked in this same place. Sharp edges in formed plastic are commonly the first place to crack. I have been allowing for a greater radius on edges like this which should help.

#83 6 years ago
Quoted from netdog:

hey,
i'd be interested in a black one as well! please count me in for the big ramp on the upper right (don't need the other one below since i'd prefer the black one).
@freeplay40: is it possible to ship to europe? (depending on shipping costs: i might take two ramps)
thx a lot, peter

We're still a ways off for these as I have been struggling with the Genesis ramps. Actually rebuilding my machine to get a better form. I have shipped some to the UK so expect I could do...Austria is it?.. Anyway what I typically do is take a domestic box to the post office to determine the international rate. Also need to package them better.

#85 6 years ago
Quoted from netdog:

thx for your reply, Freeplay40!
yes, austria it is
i'm not in a hurry, so take your time.
i guess there are some SoF owners facing the same problem with the ramp - so i'm thinking of buying more to keep the shipping costs per ramp low.
will there be drill holes, or do i have to make them on my own?

Expect I will drill all mounting holes, but the assembly of this ramp will require some skills. Parts are riveted to the ramp and there are quite a few parts. For the Space Station ramp I did, I offered a plug and play version which included all the necessary parts (new). Not sure if I will be able to offer that for this one. I expect I may offer similar to what I did with the High Speed clear ramp... That being to assemble the ramp for you with your parts sent to me.

1 month later
#88 6 years ago
Quoted from toasterman04:

Sorry I hate to ask you to check your list, but I just want to make sure I am on it! I am soooo in and would hate to miss out cause I didn't send this post...

No worries. You are #14 on the original list. I have been struggling for months on the Genesis ramps and just yesterday did I get the process figured out. I will be sending some off to test fit in a game tomorrow and then will begin production next week. Can't believe these took so long. I am really anxious to do the SOF ramps!

#93 6 years ago
Quoted from AndyBadCatsUK:

Can you also confirm me too please.

You are on the list at number 13

#94 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

I still want to see these in a game in blue. Put me on the list for blue. and might take a black as well, or orange.

#16 on the list

#97 6 years ago

OK.... Here's a photo of my machine now. Has a couple trolleys that can move the plastic up and down and an upper trolley that I can position plugs on if needed. That's one of the Genesis molds sitting on it. Can do much larger pieces now.

IMG_0705.JPG
3 weeks later
#104 6 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Are there cliffy protectors from another game that would work well for the ramp?

pm sent

#108 6 years ago

Really appreciate the photos! As you can see on the upper ramp, even with the ramp protector, the ramps still failed along the bottom edge. Age, brittleness and also the sharpness of the edge is also a point of weakness. I will certainly be softening this edge with a greater radius which will be much better on both sides. However, for long life, the right side entrance of the upper ramp is going to need protection. If the ball goes straight up the ramp, all is good. Damage occurs when the ball deflects off the entrance posts. I can rivet some spring steel there, but think the best solotion would be a Cliffy!... Interested Cliff?

The lower ramp is also beat up on both sides of the entrance. Same situation...Either spring steel riveted to the ramp sides or CLIFFY"S.

#111 6 years ago
Quoted from Mocean:

Could you share this info? I'd love some protectors there!

I just recommended that he drop a note to Cliffy's which he did.

#114 6 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Mark, are you considering making the hidden ramp that's behind the goblin drop below the upper pf?
I dont know if mines good or not, but just curious... it looks like a fairly simple piece

Yes, I'm making both ramps. Might be interesting for color/clear combinations.

#115 6 years ago
Quoted from Freeplay40:

Yes, I'm making both ramps. Might be interesting for color/clear combinations.

Whoa...Maybe I didn't understand. At the moment I am planning on making the main upper ramp and the long narrow ramp under it.

#117 6 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

ok,cool, there's another ramp (a third ramp) behind the upper playfield I believe

Crikey!

#122 6 years ago

That ramp appears to be an injection molded piece, so not something I could vacuum form. Probably best to just reinforce that ramp with something like acrylic cement.

#126 6 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Im curious, Freeplay40, I really like the black ramps on this game, it just feels good with the game, clear orange would look really good also, I think...
so, are there materials available to do orange?
I know maybe we can use the red ramps, and paint the underside yellow, just wandering how that will look?
and black? I'm guessing we could paint the underside of the clear black, so just wandering hat that will look like also. And if we paint them, what can we use to paint them to keep the paint from being scratched off from components from the underside, and keep from flaking in the future?
Thank you!

I guess I've really opened up a can of worms by offering additional color options...But I honestly don't think that's a bad thing. Certainly something I doubt you would see the "others" do.

Orange acrylic can be found, but I have to buy in full sheets, so I do have to be aware of demand. Vid1900 thought orange would look cool on Comet, but I'm not ready to make that one yet and it would be a different cut on the plastic.

As far as black ramps are concerned, I really do not want to form ABS plastic. Initially my goal was to do away with ABS and replace it with clear and colors. However, I think there is a really great alternative to the black ABS plastic. The ABS is really no more durable than acrylic. The alternative I think is a good one is to form the ramp out of clear PETG then paint the bottom black. What you get is a black ramp that is both very shiny on top and more durable than ABS. I tested the Krylon Fusion for plastic on a reject clear High Speed ramp and it came out great and the paint seems very durable. If at some point in the future any of the paint came off, it would simply be a "touch up" on the underside.

As soon as I start forming the SOF ramps, I will post a photos of a clear painted black.

#131 6 years ago

There are a lot of ramps I want to do....Just don't want them to take as long as those Genesis Ramps!.. SOF is up now. I formed a few extra sets of the Genesis ramps today and then I'm taking a serious break from them! My brother is in town from Costa Rica and leaving mid week... Then I'm going to hit the SOF hard.

1 week later
#132 6 years ago

Ramp update... Hoping to start test forming in the next few days!

#139 6 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

I dunno if i have made this CLEAR (lol) but im in for whatever ramp color really, just put me on the list.

You're on there!

#140 6 years ago

Another Pinsider asked me to show photos of both painted black clear plastic and painted black red transparent black. I will show the red tomorrow, but wanted to post this before I lost daylight. The photos below show one of my Space Station clear ramps (just rough cut) and a brand new black ABS Space Shuttle ramp. Seems the industry thinks that it is best when reproducing the black ABS ramps to simply make them thicker for greater durability. That increased thickness can cause difficulties in fitting them onto the playfields. This is simply to demonstrate that there may be an alternative to traditional black ABS. The Space Station ramp is made out of PETG and then sprayed on the underside with Krylon Fusion black for plastic.

IMG_0714.JPG IMG_0715.JPG
#142 6 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

That black looks sweet! Can't wait to see what red does!

I don't have anything red formed, but I'll paint a piece of flat tomorrow.

#144 6 years ago

So...took a piece of red transparent acrylic and applied black, silver and yellow to the back just to see the effect. In the photo below, black is on the left, then silver, then the wide area has no paint and on the right is yellow. All three paints are solid color. Not real exciting in my opinion. None of these colors will allow light to pass through.

However, I think some interesting effects could be obtained by using transparent colors on the bottom...specifically the type of paint that is used to paint RC model bodies. I used a mix of transparent paint on the Genesis pink ramps. I have little to no artistic talent and beyond the Genesis ramps I doubt I will ever paint again with the exception of black on clear PETG which works very well.

Maybe that color changing auto paint?..that might be cool.... But again, my experimentation with paint other than black is pretty much done.. I should just focus on making ramps!

IMG_0716.JPG
#146 6 years ago
Quoted from MustangPaul:

I think you have the wrong picture up.

Really? Why do you say that?

#148 6 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

I like how the silver makes it look blood red, and the black gives it the red undertone.
The color changing paint is called Chameleon, and it is a great idea.
I've been toying with the Idea of gunmetal color for the clear...
Freeplay40, Thank you so much for working so hard for us! that was really cool painting those colors

The black is pretty dead. The yellow didn't do much either. Probably the silver gave the best effect, just not sure how it would look in a game.

1 week later
10
#151 6 years ago

First teaser.... a little quicker than Genesis!

SOF Teaser.JPG
#156 6 years ago

I reached out to another Pinsider for some info on the game but he is out until early next week and I want to address some issues for improvement on the ramps...so I thought I would post here for input as well...

Some initial areas of concern are:

The left lower edge of the entrance to the upper ramp...cracked on the model I am using
Entrance to the upper ramp where the hold down screws are...again cracked
Cracks along the lower edge opposite the diverters.
Destruction on both sides of the entrance to the lower ramp.

As far as the cracks are concerned at the entrance to the upper ramp as well as opposite the diverters... Plastic, when molded with sharp edges naturally become weak points over time. The upper mold must be a "female" mold and thus I am able to control the radius at these edges. What I will do for these is to allow a greater radius to strengthen these points.

For the screw down holes at the entrance, on the model I have they are both broken, most likely because they are very close to the leading edge. I want to modify the entrance slightly to give the screws more meat. What I'm thinking about doing is making the entrance slightly longer to giver them more meat as well as flattening out the entrance just a little to give a more positive securement to the playfield. I reviewed some photos at Christopherhutchins.com and appears there is room to accomplish both of these modifications.

The existing game has a ramp protector on the left entrance which is good. Some photos I have seen show, in addition to being secured to the entrance post, it is also secured with both a screw on the top edge and in some photos it is also riveted to the ramp. I think a better overall solution to this mounting scenario is to just put a couple dabs of silicone in place of the rivet and the screw.

The lower ramp....Lot of potential damage at the entrance.. Think the best solution here is ramp protectors by Cliffy....will communicate directly with him... If ramp protectors are not going to be available I am considering cementing a piece of PETG to the outer sides at the entrance...but protectors would be best. The lower ramp is a "Male" mold...opposite of the upper ramp...I will also slightly increase the radius of the lower edges for greater durability.

Aesthetically, on the inside of the upper ramp up hill curve is a rather abrupt cut in the ramp where it transitions to the edge of the up hill side of the ramp. I am going to "curve this transition slightly to make it a "smoother" transition.

Appreciate any input from you guys...

#157 6 years ago

Photos of rough cut ramps tomorrow!

#158 6 years ago

First shot of available colors. Note these are just rough cut and will be finished once I build the necessary jigs.

IMG_0721.JPG IMG_0722.JPG IMG_0723.JPG IMG_0724.JPG IMG_0725.JPG
#164 6 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Mark, I'm in for black for sure... Is that black petg? Or did you spray them?

Quoted from AndyBadCatsUK:

Red looks very good but black if it's original and not spray painted. Either is fine.
What a clever bloke you are.

The black is clear PETG with the bottom painted (PETG is only available in clear unless you want to order about 1000#). While over the past few years I feel that Krylon paint is just not what it used to be...However, the Krylon Fusion for plastic is pretty impressive. I painted the underside, then went about the cutting and sanding and it held up very well. I did scratch one spot and it was easily touched up and unnoticeable. The paint fully cures over a period of 7 days. I really think this is a great alternative to the traditional black ABS. The appearance is very black compared to an ABS ramp and incredibly shiny. Plus the PETG is much more durable than ABS.

#165 6 years ago
Quoted from rgb635:

I hope you get some business from new machine start-up groups or companies! Keep up the good work and it just might happen!!

I work with FAST Pinball and at this time not really pursuing any new pinball business. I like what I'm doing now and don't want to become a slave to it, but who knows.

#166 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinbali:

Just picked up a sof. Lionman need red please!!

The red, just like the blue look so much better in person....they just don't photograph well.

#167 6 years ago

Some stuff to think about... With the High Speed ramp, I offered to do the assembly for those who were not set up to do riveting. The bottom ramp is very simple and is just a straight installation. My personal recommendation for that ramp is the clear PETG for durability. If Cliffy makes ramp protectors for SOF, the lower ramp really needs them, especially if a red or blue is desired.

The upper ramp as you can see on the first page of the SOF ramp post has a lot of stuff attached to it with rivets. I can do just as I did with High Speed and offer assembly service, but it will be at least $25, maybe $30. This would involve you sending me the parts to put on a new ramp...OR, I may offer to show any of you how to do it yourself. There is a simple tool available at either Pin Restore or Hanson's Rivets for $25. It is a hand held roll over die. You simply position the head of the rivet against a piece of hardwood, then hammer the rivet. I may even shoot a short video. I have a rivet press, but there are times when due to the location of the rivet, the press can't be used. In those cases, I use the hand held one and it works perfectly. I may also consider providing the necessary rivets for purchase. Pin Restore also sells a really great rivet startup kit. I believe his rivets are plated brass which would probably be easier to work with than the steel rivets I use.

Here' a link to the Pin Restore website where you can see the "Rivet Rollover Punch" and the rivet kit...

http://www.pinrestore.com/Riveting.html

With Pinball machines, learning to do riveting is a good skill to learn.

I am still probably a couple weeks out before I can start shipping these and I want to ship the first ones to the gentleman that provided me the ramps to use as models and hopefully we can get him to take us some photos to help with the color selections.

#168 6 years ago
Quoted from Pinbali:

Just picked up a sof. Lionman need red please!!

Got you on the list!

#170 6 years ago

Just a photo to demonstrate the difference between ABS (granted, old) and PETG painted on the underside with Krylon Fusion for Plastic. The appearance of the painted ramps is very much like how black patton leather looks.

ABS vs Painted PETG.JPG
#176 6 years ago
Quoted from mof:

I hope your enthusiasm for this project lasts long enough to create Space Shuttle ramps -- I've decided that my game deserves no black. It should celebrate USA and be all red-white-blue-and stainless steel.
-mof

Quoted from dothedoo:

Have to say I agree. I have a nice, new black ramp for my SS, but would rather go with one of your ramps instead.

Space shuttle is on my list of to do's. When I rebuilt my machine to accommodate the intricacies of the Genesis ramps, I also made it much bigger to handle larger ramps. However, I now need to build the bigger oven which I will start on very soon...likely as soon as I get the SOF ramps rolling.

#180 6 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

I really wana see these in a machine. Its super hard to make a decision.

Quoted from Whysnow:

I'm in.
Still thinking clear but would love to see photos in a game

Quoted from Chitownpinball:

What about clear upper black lower? Hmmmm...so many choices!

Pinsider Nelly was the one kind enough to donate his ramps so that I could make these. As soon as I get the jigs set up so that I can do all the cuts and drilling then attach flaps, I am going to ship him off all 4 sets. Although he no longer owns a true SOF, he has a friend with one and has offered to take the ramps for test fit and photos. I understand there are many possible combinations and I agree that seeing them in the machine is critical. Even with the Genesis ramps, after Chris Hibler posted photos in the game, almost 90% opted for the clear ones.

I used to own SOF so I too am exited to see how they look. I will get the ramps off to Nelly as soon as I can. Certainly by next Monday...maybe sooner.

#185 6 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

I want to get on the list for a set of these. However it is one does that.

On the list!

#190 6 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

Any update on the sticker guy?
I am increasingly thinking i want a clear top and black lower. How cool would it be to see the bal go up to the upper playfield?

You just can't know until you see them in the machine. So many potential combinations. When I did the Genesis ramps, most initially wanted either Pink or Blue, but in the end over 90% went with the clears!

#192 6 years ago
Quoted from AndyBadCatsUK:

So from what your saying it looks like the clear are cosmetically better and also stronger than the coloured versions . If this is the case I will opt for clear on both ramps as longevity is a better option for me. I would be after the rivets too and I would assemble back in the UK. Stunning work so far my friend.

The clear and/or painted black are PETG plastic and much more durable than the acrylic. The upper ramp has a stock ramp protector on the left side, but should have some protection on the right side as well. The lower ramp, a lot due to it's location closer to the flipper, gets hit even harder and again there is often damage to both sides at the entrance.

I know that Cliffy wants to make protectors for this game, but like all of us, it takes time. I am less concerned about damage to the upper ramp at the entrance with the PETG, however the lower ramp will be subject to more abuse simply because it is closer to the flippers....greater energy. If acrylic colored is opted for on the lower ramps, it simply must have protection at the entrance... probably best for the PETG as well.

Some of the things I am considering to strengthen the entrances to both ramps is to apply spring steel protection to the sides. Typically I would rivet these in place, but with the potential for Cliffy to make better protectors, I'm thinking about applying the spring steel with silicone which could be removed at a later date. Another option I'm considering is, cementing some small clear PETG panels to the outside walls at the entrances with cement.

I am taking my time right now working on the finishing processes and hope to have the sample ramps ready to ship to Nelly in a few more days.

Nelly was kind enough to donate the upper ramp complete with all hardware. As soon as I complete the finishing on the first set of ramps, I am going to install (just with screws for demonstration) that hardware on the clear ramp. There is a lot of hardware on this ramp and I am anxious to see what it looks like as it will all be visible.

We're getting close.....Mark

1 week later
#199 6 years ago

OK... Granted I have been taking it a little easy the past two weeks... What I have been working on were production issues that will help me get these out to you. I will ship the 4 sets (Blue, Red, Clear and black) to Nelly on Tuesday.

In the mean time, there was discussion on how a clear would look with the associated hardware. When Nelly receives the ramps and gets time to "photo shoot" the various combinations in an actual game hopefully your decisions will be easier, but for the moment, I wanted to post a photo of a finished clear ramp with all associated hardware attached as a preview.

Note that the photos sort of evolve. In addition to showing photos of the hardware as it exists attached, I also took some photos with plastic wire conduit installed as possibly something that might interest you...

Getting close now!....Mark

IMG_0744.JPG
IMG_0745.JPG
IMG_0746.JPG
IMG_0747.JPG
IMG_0748.JPG
IMG_0749.JPG
IMG_0750.JPG

#202 6 years ago
Quoted from OTTOgd:

Too much ugly hardware to go clear, imho

I initially thought the hardware exposed on the High Speed would too visible, but in the end it looked fine. The black plastic conduit helps a lot visibly.

Someone had come up with the idea of painting certain sections of a clear ramp...Good idea. Steve Richie thought a roadbed on the High Speed would look good, but my design with curves built into it prevents any application of a decal. However, once could be painted on. This Krylon Fusion for Plastic is some pretty good paint!

#203 6 years ago

Couple items...

Attached are a couple photos. One shows the modified entrance to the upper ramp where I have flattened the entrance slightly for a more positive attachment of the ramp to the playfield...basically, it fits flat to the playfield surface.

I don't actually have the game anymore, so questions come up and I'm reaching out to you. In the second photo of the clear ramp, there are two holes in the bottom of the upper portion of the ramp in the area around the diverters. They are circled in red. What I would like to know is, are these holes there as actual attach points for the ramp? (where the ramp is screwed down) or are they there to allow clearance for posts below? The reason I ask is that these two holes are perilously close to the cutouts for the diverter arms thus creating a weak spot in the ramp. At the very least I will likely add a small bead of cement in this area on the acrylics.

IMG_0751.JPG IMG_0749b.jpg
#204 6 years ago

Think I just figured out the answer on the two holes. Appears this is where the ramp attaches to the diverter assembly...

#206 6 years ago

Update...

A local enthusiast has agree to loan me his SOF so that I can do precise fitting as well as test some ideas I have for strengthening the acrylic colored ramps. I should have the game on Thursday. I will first remove his ramp, then lay the various colored and clear ramps in the game and post photos for those of you unsure about color combinations. I will then install an acrylic colored ramp set with various added structural support, then play the heck out of it to see if I can break the ramps. I'm also anxious to see what can be done with additional lighting.

Hope to post the first in game photos up by next Friday....Mark

#210 6 years ago

While I await the arrival of a friend's SOF, I am experimenting with some reinforcement at the entrance to the acrylic ramps. In the photos below I have adhered some clear 1/8" clear PETG with silicone to the outside of the entrance walls. If this proves too obtrusive or visually ineffective when I test fit, I might try some 1/16" Lexan. I like the PETG simply because in itself is somewhat flexible as is the silicone.. Energy absorbing maybe??

IMG_0752.JPG
IMG_0753.JPG
IMG_0754.JPG
IMG_0755.JPG

#214 6 years ago
Quoted from Nelly:

Hmmm, not sure that's going to work. They crack at the bend and having one side of the bend stronger than the other may actually hurt you (i.e the wall won't flex as much which will send the energy to the bend which is the week point already).

The best solution would be Cliffy's, but he indicated it may be a while before he gets to them. I left a greater radius on the lower edges. I could rivet spring steel to the insides but if you are correct, that would not make much difference. Any Ideas?

I should have the game tomorrow and can see what else I could do.

#216 6 years ago

Clearly we need a good solution at the entrance at the lower ramp which has taken serious abuse. I hope to post photos of the various colors in the game by tomorrow or Saturday. Once that is done I will see what I can come up with. Just may have to be stainless steel guards attached to the entrance posts.

#218 6 years ago

Maybe. I can give it a try. As soon as I get the game it will be a lot easier for me to visualize what we can do to protect that ramp. Will need to get a perfect fit so may actually have to form the material. I did reach out to Cliffy one last time, but I know he's very busy and really jumped through some hoops to do the Genesis protectors.

BTW... your drawing is very clear.

#219 6 years ago

Good News!

Have been in email exchanges with Cliff Rinear (Cliffy's!) this morning and he has agreed to move the Swords of Fury ramp protectors to the Top of the List. As soon as I get the machine set up I will start providing Cliff with the info he needs to create these. Specifically what I'm thinking is protectors for both sides of the lower ramp and for the right uphill side of the upper ramp. Left side is already protected with the stock metal. In addition I may add a small cemented strip of plastic at the lower radius of the walls. This combination should greatly increase the durability of these ramps.

#221 6 years ago

So... Now have an SOF in the house. Will begin dismantling it today and hope to post various photos, hopefully tomorrow.

#223 6 years ago

I really enjoy the collaboration on these ramp projects. When the game was delivered today we of course spent a good hour talking about the SOF ramps and I even demonstrated a forming of a High Speed for him. One of the reasons I offer these ramps as alternatives to the original ramps is that we can really change the look of a game...especially with the new lighting options that are available. He popped out an interesting idea when he was here (Thanks Lou!). At the Diverters there are three colored lights that protrude up through the Black ABS to indicate which direction the ball will be routed by the diverter. He thought it might be interesting to not put those holes in the plastic and let a light down within the plastic light up the red or blue ramp... Hmmm...that one I am going to have to test!

#224 6 years ago

The machine I was loaned is in generally pretty good shape, however as soon as I started to dismantle it I discovered that it too had damage at the entrance to the upper ramp... Pretty creative repair job here....just move the flap further up the ramp! Note original hold down holes and where the ramp used to reach noted in red...

IMG_0761.JPG
#225 6 years ago

OK.... Since the ramps as was given as well as at least the upper ramp in the game I have now were damaged, the first thing I needed to do was figure out just what the entrance should look like. Pretty simple if you actually have the game. Could not have guessed it without it.

So this is just the first teaser... Photo of the existing stock ramp sitting in the game and the PETG painted black underneath sitting in the game without any hardware.

I think for the ultimate photo shoot I will completely install (temp screws and not rivets and probably without entrance flap) each combination into the game. I also think that with anything other than black the desired effect would be better with increased GI under the ramp, so I might add at least a couple light for the tests.

IMG_0762.JPG IMG_0765.JPG
#226 6 years ago

Also, underneath the upper ramp just above the tunnel entrance is a flash lamp... that should look pretty cool under the colored ramps.

#228 6 years ago
Quoted from mof:

Can I pre-pay now for Space Shuttle?

Absolutely not... I want to be different in the Pinball World and never expect prepay! I might try to squeeze the F-14 in soon, but I'll hold off on Space Shuttle until this fall likely. Need to enjoy a little summer!

#231 6 years ago
Quoted from CaptainNeo:

i can send you a picture of where that ramp should line up with the flap if you are having trouble seeing where everything should be once in the game.

No problem, I can see it very easily but thanks. Ramps are fitting very well. I do recall that you said there were some differences in the lower edge of the diverter cutouts and I can see that in the two samples I have now. The ramp I modeled after had them cut lower than I would like. The second ramp has a lot more meat at the bottom. Due to the proximity of the two larger holes in the bottom of the ramp by the diverter where the actual hold down screws are, I am going to modify my cut a little higher for more strength. When anyone installs one of these ramps, once installed they should check that the diverter arms clear the ramp openings. As it looks right now the game I have clears them very easily even with the higher cut. Better to leave a little more meat. If any had an issue the lower edge could be very easily sanded down a little. Appreciate you pointing this out.

It's fun to actually see them in the game. Initially I thought the blue wasn't the best choice, but now with the game on it looks great. Also the red is HOT!

I want to take the time to temporarily mount the hardware on each one so all can see very close to the finish product.

#233 6 years ago

OK... I promise I will send a complete set of photos showing the various combinations, but I just can't help myself when I see something I think is exciting.

I set the two red ramps, and trust me, the camera does not do the red justice, and shot a no flash photo with the game in attract mode. For comparison I also shot a photo with the stock black ramps sitting in the game, again, no flash.

The GI under the plastic to the left of the lower ramp is providing most of the light to the reds.

IMG_0770.JPG IMG_0771.JPG
#234 6 years ago

Here's a side shot of just the lower red ramp...

IMG_0768.JPG
#238 6 years ago

I will try to get the complete photo sets tomorrow. I'd like to get the ramp protector detail off to Cliffy, hopefully by Saturday. I want to attach the hardware to each of the upper ramps so we can get a good view of each. I'm also considering at least one more GI light up in the back to illuminate the colored ramps.

#250 6 years ago

Might not be until tomorrow night before I can post the photos...photos are better at night. I'm working on getting models of the protectors to Cliffy for the right side entrance of the upper ramp and both sides of the lower ramps....

#251 6 years ago

I have finished the models for the protectors to send to Cliff... Going out tomorrow morning.

SOF Ramp protectors.JPG
#253 6 years ago

OK... Back on track now. Just wanted to take the time to get the models for the protectors to Cliff. Photo shoot tonight. I'll post close ups of all possible combinations and include full playfield view for each.

#254 6 years ago

OK... Here we go. First let me explain a few things. I had intended to shoot each scenario with all the hardware attached to the upper ramp...But hey, there are only so many hours in the day! SO I only shot the clear upper ramp with all the hardware attached sine on that one it would be the most visible. Happy to report that I did not fine the hardware and wires to be any issue at all visibly. I actually think it is less on the eyes than the High Speed ramp and I was fine with it. Note that I did uses some 1/4" black plastic conduit on mine and can supply that if anyone wants some.

You never know until you see them in the machine. I replace the GI under the plastic to the left of the lower ramp with PinballBulbs Cool White LED Frosted bulbs...Better illumination and shows the colors better. In the Scenario of Clear over Clear I swapped out the GI bulbs under that plastic with Bright Red Clear Dome PinballBulbs LED's.

The scenario of Blue over Red or Red over Blue are here as well, but those two colors don't play well together with respect to light transmission...gotta be a spectrum thing. May be hard to tell in the photos, but in these Red/Blue scenarios, the upper ramp loses a lot of illumination. I suppose you could add lighting above the lower ramp along the side if you wanted to get around the lower ramp.

I believe it was Whysnow who said he likes clear ramps... I do show the Clear/Clear with the White GI (Pretty bright), but I also shot it with red GI under the plastic and I gotta say, that's one of my favorites...ELECTRIC!. Beyond that one my other favorites are clear under either red or the blue.

I did not bother to shoot photos of black under the red or blue since it would block out the GI that illuminates the upper ramp. I did shoot black under clear.

I did not shoot black over black since we all pretty much know what that looks like but I will shoot it anyone wants it.. Mine are just very shiny.

I am going to provide a post for each "Photo Shoot"... Each will be based on the color of the upper ramp.

After you look through this stuff, if you know what you want, please let me know so that I can begin to gauge the amounts of the various plastics I have to order. I think in one way or another red will be popular, but it all comes down to personal preference. I once sold a Cactus Jacks because it was yellow...I tend to like blue games.

Here we go....

#255 6 years ago

Clear Upper ramp photos. Note for all the scenarios I provide a close up and full playfield shot.

ClearBlackClose.JPG ClearBlackMachine.JPG ClearBlueClose.JPG ClearBlueMachine.JPG ClearRedClose.JPG ClearRedMachine.JPG ClearClearClose White Bulbs.JPG ClearClearMachine White Bulbs.JPG ClearClearclose Red GI.JPG ClearClearMachine Red GI.JPG
#256 6 years ago

Blue Upper Ramp Photos...

BlueBlueClose.JPG BlueBlueMachine.JPG BlueClearClose.JPG BlueClearMachine.JPG BlueRedClose.JPG BlueRedMachine.JPG
#257 6 years ago

Red Upper ramp photos...

RedBlueClose.JPG RedBlueMachine.JPG RedClearClose.JPG RedClearMachine.JPG RedRedClose.JPG RedRedMachine.JPG
#263 6 years ago

Personally I think a red/blue combination can work, but as I said those two colors fight each other for light transmission. Might be worth it to extend a little GI above the lower ramp to better illuminate the upper ramp. If I get time I might experiment with this.

#272 6 years ago
Quoted from epthegeek:

I think I'd go with clear over black, maybe clear over red -- but something has to be done about that bulb under the center ramp entrance. Either a decal there, or covering the front-facing half of the bulb with something. It looks crappy with the bulb blaring away in your face like that.

A light like this was similar on High Speed that had two lights behind the uphill curve. I simple replaced them with a couple cheap LED's. The clear ramp picks up the color well.

IMG_0573.JPG

#280 6 years ago

Progress update....

I've gotten several requests to do the assembly on these ramps from your supplied parts. In addition to the entrance flap on the upper ramp which is included in the price, there are 16 other rivets including the a rivet on the upper ramp left side entrance for the factory protector. What I prefer is that just the parts that are riveted to the ramp be sent to me, meaning you would have to remove them. This will save you on postage to me... Now as far as sending me the entire ramp for me to disassemble, I can do that as well but will charge a little extra for that.. More importantly, is, if you want the original ramp back, the postage obviously gets a little more expensive. What I've learned with the US Postal service is that once a package exceeds 1 cubic foot, postage costs go way up. So to make up a box with both the two new ramps AND your old ramp, will be more than 1 cubic foot and will push postage up quite a lot.

That said, I expect I would return ship your old ramp in a separate box and likely charge $15 just to return it. Much cheaper for you if you can successfully remove the parts from your old ramp. I should point out that we are only talking about the upper ramp. There are no parts riveted to the lower ramp....not even a flap. I will gladly discuss the removal of the parts with anyone that need guidance.

As far as shipping cost for the new two ramp set, as soon as I can get a set boxed up, I can go to the post office to see actual cost to me to set that price. I expect it will surely be less than $25 for the set, and will update that next week...after the NW Pinball show!

I will do the assembly from your supplied parts for $25. If you want to send me the whole ramp to disassemble, I'll do that for $30.

For those of you that want to do your own assembly, assuming you have the ability to press the rivets, I can offer the necessary semi-tubular steel rivets for $3. I will also offer enough black plastic conduit which cleans up the wires nicely for $3.

At the moment I am redesigning the ramp protectors for the lower ramp and will get those changes to Cliffy either today or tomorrow. I still have to make some minor changes to my molds now that I have an actual game to test them in. I made a initial order for the colored plastic today. Colored plastic can take up to two weeks to get. Expect I will start production with the clear and black ramps first since I can get that material locally.

#283 6 years ago
Quoted from toasterman04:

I THINK I AM GOING TO GO WITH THE CLEAR. THAT WAY IT GIVES ME OPTIONS IN THE FUTURE. I AM IN FOR ONE RAMP SET FOR SURE, BUT WOULD LOVE ANOTHER ONE FOR WHEN I TAKE IT OFF ROUTE AND BRING IT HOME FOR GOOD. HOW LONG DO YOU PLAN TO SELL THESE, WILL IT BE A ONE TIME PRODUCTION, OR WILL YOU HAVE THESE STILL AVAILABLE FOR SALE 6 MONTHS TO A YEAR FROM NOW?

Who knows where I will be in 6 months! Generally I just keep producing if there is interest.

#285 6 years ago
Quoted from jwilson:

Please make an Anti-Gravity ramp. Every single one is broken.

Anti-Gravity ramp????

#289 6 years ago
Quoted from Raptor:

Great work.
Please add me to the list for a set of clear ramps.
I think I'll wind up painting them black, but I'll decide on that after I see how they look on my game.

I'm betting once you see the clear in the game you won't want to paint them black. Incredible illumination from underneath the plastic to the left of the lower ramp!

#291 6 years ago

I'm going to pick up some blue LED frosted bulbs at the Pinball show to also try under the clear/clear. Fun how you can change the look of the ramps with lighting.

#294 6 years ago

Ahhhhh. Recovering from the NW Pinball show that concluded yesterday. Really a great show this year. Got to play some of the newer games I have not had the chance to play yet like Mustang and Walking Dead. PinballBulbs had an awesome booth set up with many tricked out games, including a Bride of Pinbot 2.0....really enjoyed that one! Was a comment above about the light under the entrance of the upper ramp being a little too noticeable, as well as a post by snyper2099 about the LED's on wires that can be directed...Picked up a few of those when I did my PinballBulb shopping and will post a photo with those in the game.

Got home around 9:00 pm last night after the tear down of all the games. Got to spend some time with James Loflin (Pinball Inc.)....very nice guy and Leo Loflin who demonstrated the fine art of PETG flame polishing for me...Thanks Leo!. Also spent some time with Marc Mandeltort (Marco Specialties). Think he'd like me to make him some stuff...

Spent today redesigning the lower ramp protectors and I will send those off to Cliffy tomorrow. Next I will complete the final touches to the molds and will then begin forming. Will likely focus mostly on the clears and the blacks as I have that plastic in hand. For the reds and the blues I have some plastic on hand and can get started on them while my next order of plastic gets found! Production should begin in just the next few days, but before I start shipping I want to get at least a little inventory ready. Then I will simply keep producing until I get everyone interested covered.

Couple photos of the ramp protector models I'm sending to Cliff. Yes, his will look nicer than mine!

Lower ramp left side.JPG Lower ramp right side.JPG
#298 6 years ago

Honestly don't know if yellow or black is "stock" IPDB shows them in yellow... Me?...I'd go black. Pretty sure the upper ramp entrance just has the straight ones, so just should have them for the lower ramp entrance posts. As far as stiffness, the colored acrylic ramps are actually a little stiffer than the clear of the black which are made out of PETG. PETG is more durable than the acrylic. With the colored ramps you absolutely need the Cliffy ramp protectors....highly recommended for the PETG.

#308 6 years ago

Nice work!!! Just one thing... Since I will install a new flap on the upper ramp, you do not need to remove the original one from your old ramp. Just to confirm, there is nothing you need to send from the lower ramp.

So...snyper2099...for your excellent help...you'll get the first set! Have you decided what you want?

#311 6 years ago
Quoted from snyper2099:

Ok, I fixed it up. I have chosen clear upper and lower.

Sweet....First set for you!

#320 6 years ago
Quoted from Nelly:

I think those Chicago Screws are going to be too big for this application. They will sit up higher than rivets and you will likely have to enlarge the rivet hole in order to get even their smallest one to fit. Nice idea, just not feasible for replacing a small low profile rivet.

Sometimes you can use an alternative to an original type rivet, but more often than not, they will affect ball travel....especially on High Speed.

Quoted from AndyBadCatsUK:

Does this mean you are fitting a metal entry flap to the upper ramp? That would be nice.
Also those Chicago screw rivets look good.
They would look nice and be less risky to fit.
Freeplay are you able to supply these also with the ramps for my UK order.

The upper ramp will have a new flap installed which is included in the ramp prices. The lower ramp will not have a flap attached as it is actually separate from the ramp.. Note that I sent a scan and measurements for the lower ramp flap to Cliffy and he will probably make those available as well. I do not intend to offer the Chicago Screws with my ramps... however, for those of you who want to do your own assembly, I do intend to offer the needed semi tubular rivets to attach the stuff. If you can find another enthusiast with a rivet press that would be great... Or instead of finding or building a rivet press, you can just use a rivet roll over punch with a hammer. Pinrestore sells them for $25

http://www.pinrestore.com/Riveting.html

Although I do have a rivet press, there are times when, due to the location of the rivet, the press cannot reach it. In those cases I use the rivet roll over punch. You just need to support the rivet head....a block of hardwood works well, but my favorite is one of the jaws on my vise... then pound the rivet from the back side until sufficiently rolled over. It's really pretty easy to do and you could use this to rivet most anything on a pin. The type of rivets used are called semi-tubular. The biggest thing to learn is just what length rivet to use and for these kits, if you choose for me to provide the rivets, the length issue is solved. Semi-tubular means that a portion of the bottom of the rivet is hollow. When you hammer the rollover, the punch eventually strikes the solid portion of the river and the process just stops at that point. Anyway, I am willing to help anyone learn how to do this as it is a good skill/ability to have for pin work.

#321 6 years ago

OK... You can be first too! Nelly is the one who provided the originals for me to model from!

#324 6 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

I'm going to buy the punch and I will need rivets
Throw in a few extra, as I tend to mess up a few sometimes

There are a few locations where screws and nuts could be used instead of rivets. Basically, any position that the ball can come in contact with should be a rivet. There is a switch on the up hill turn of the upper ramp that could be mounted with screws. The plastic at the end of the ramp could also be attached with screws....So start with the places that must be riveted.

Pinrestore also sells a starter rivet kit that includes a variety of rivet lengths as well as washers. Note that washers are always used where the roll over of the rivet would otherwise contact the plastic....like on the entrance flaps. The Pinrestore rivets are nickel plated brass which are softer than what I use. I use steel rivets.

#330 6 years ago
Quoted from aeonblack:

Just to save on the hassle of shipping back and forth, I'm considering doing the rivets myself. I've never done rivets before and have none of the tools to do so (AFAIK, anyways). Does anyone have a list of what I would need and a rough guide on how to do it if that's how I decide to go about this?

I'm more than happy to help you figure out how to do it. When I get ready to ship, I plan on making rivets available to those who want to do their own assembly. While a rivet press is great for most of the stuff I do, there are times when the press cannot reach a particular rivet. In those cases I use a hand rivet roll over punch. It does the same work as the rivet press, but instead of a "press" you use a hammer. Simply position the head of the rivet against a piece of hardwood and hammer from the back side until it is sufficiently rolled over. My favorite "support" for the rivet head when my press won't work is one of the jaws of my vise. The semi tubular rivet is hollow for a portion of the roll over end. Basically it can only be rolled over so far, so rivet length is the issue. I will include rivets of the proper length and rivet washers for those who want to buy them. The tool you would need can be purchased from Pin Restore:

http://www.pinrestore.com/Riveting.html

Scroll down and you will see the tool... "Rivet Rollover Punch" for $25. While I only use this tool when my press can't reach, there is no reason why it can't be used for all riveting with properly supported work.

There are many things riveted in Pinball machines, so learning this skill will come in handy later. The rivets I use are plated steel. Pin Restore also sells a nice rivet started kit for $30 which are mostly plated brass rivets (softer metal that will take less effort to roll over). Most important thing to remember is that if the rolled over portion of the rivet would be against plastic, you need to use a rivet washer.

#331 6 years ago

RAMP UPDATE...

Production begins tomorrow. Before I'm going to accept orders, I want to get a little inventory built up. I have some stock for producing the ramps, but my big order is in town and I will likely pick it up on Monday or Tuesday. Doubt I ordered enough to cover everyone out the gate, but my supplier was nice enough to order in extra! Generally I like to work through the list from top to bottom, but frankly that's more work to manage as some jump right on their machines to get me the parts or the ramps and others need more time. So when I announce I am ready to ship....come and get 'em. Chosen has sent me the decals he made and I will include those with the first 20 orders I get. Chosen has offered them for free, but for his efforts would appreciate a donation!

I will work until I get everyone covered that wants them. Cliff Rinear (CLiffy's) has the final models for the ramp protectors and was working on them this evening...Remember, the colored ramps absolutely need the additional protectors....highly recommended for the clear and black PETG as well for long life.

Earlier in the post someone pointed out that the light under the entrance to the upper ramp was a bit obnoxious. Took the recommendation of a directional LED and picked some up at the NW Pinball show. Below are photos of the clear ramp set, with the red LED GI under the plastic to the left of the lower ramp AND a red directional LED under the entrance to the upper ramp...no more glare and it lights up the horseshoe under the upper ramp nicely.

In the next few days I will nail down the optional costs for rivets, rivet washers, black conduit and shipping.

Mark

ClrClrRedGIand dirclose.JPG ClrCLrRedGIand DirMachine.JPG
#335 6 years ago

Riveting... As I've done before, I am happy to do the assembly on these ramps for you. I am equally happy (maybe more?) to help any of you to learn to rivet....So I am considering purchasing a batch of the hand roll over punches to include with your orders so that you do not have to purchase separately....especially for the international orders. Ponder that and I will try to post a video soon of how easy it is.

I have some High Speed parts coming to me now for assembly and there is a nice example of how to use this tool on that ramp.

#337 6 years ago
Quoted from toasterman04:

I would love a "rivet set" sent wih my ramps please. I too will be trying to do it myself.... Clear ramps and a rivet set please and thank you. I will also make sure to send a donation for the work of the decals. It's gonna be great!!

If I can get say 10 folks to want to purchase the rivet tool, I will go ahead and order them.

#344 6 years ago

Here's a photo of my hand roll over punch. Simple hand tool...Machined to produce the roll over on a semi tubular rivet. Just add hammer! Really pretty easy to do. I'm going to try and post a video demonstrating it soon. Price is $25, same as Pin Restore.

Hand Roll Over punch.JPG
#347 6 years ago
Quoted from AndyBadCatsUK:

Don't you need a part for the other side for the rivet to fold over properly??

The rivet is a single piece that goes through the material, then "mushroomed" on the bottom side. If the bottom side material is plastic and not a metal piece, you use a rivet washer. Typically riveting is a two die process. One die holds the head in place while the roll over die mushrooms the bottom. You don't need the die to support the head. You can use a piece of hardwood, or I just support the rivet head on one of the jaws of my vise.

#351 6 years ago

OK...As promised. I recorded a short video and posted on Utube to demonstrate how easy it is to use the hand roll over punch to do riveting on pinball parts. In the video, I am riveting a small bracket on a High Speed clear ramp. Note that since the rolled over end of the rivet is against the steel of the bracket, no washer is required. Any questions, give me a shout. I am going to purchase a small amount of these punches which I can include in the shipment along with rivets....So if you want to go the assemble yourself route using this punch and rivets supplied by me, let me know ASAP. If I run out of the punches, they can also be purchased from Pinball Restore or Hanson's Rivets for $25 plus shipping.

#356 6 years ago
Quoted from xeneize:

Freeplay, will you please confirm that I am on the list for both ramps (still not sure about colors, but if I need to make an immediate choice would go clear) and the rivet kit? Will you sell the Cliffys with the ramps, or is that a separate deal with Cliff? I am really excited about this - you've done some tremendous work!

Yup...You're on the list! My goal is to get these produced as quickly as I can for everyone who has indicated interest. Then I intend to take a little time to enjoy summer! I will get to everyone who wants them.

At this point it looks like I'm going to start shipping around the 24th or 25th of this month. Basically because I ordered special boxes for these and that's when they'll be here. Learned a lot of about US mail over the last year. Basically it's the best deal in town....provided you stay under one cubic foot. One cubic foot equals 1728 cubic inches. The box I ordered which should fit these nicely is 20" x 14" by 6". That equates to 1680 cubic inches.

As far as Cliffy's protectors are concerned, for domestic US buyers I would prefer that you deal with him directly. For international shippers, to save money, I will allow you to purchase directly from Cliffy and then have him send to me to include with your ramps. This has worked well before.

I'm going to order 10-12 roll over punches tomorrow. If you haven't already, let me know if you want one and I will earmark for you.

If I made the riveting look simple in the video.....it is easy!

Will stick with my tradition and post photos on the hot tub of some completed ramps in a few days.

#358 6 years ago
Quoted from bjones:

I looked but didn't see a price for a set of these. My SOF could use a set.

The ramp prices are $135 for the upper and $40 for the lower. Both will be predrilled for installation and the upper ramp will have a new flap attached. Note the bottom ramp flap is not attached to the actual ramp. Installation of the ramps requires that the parts riveted to the upper ramp be transferred to the new upper ramp. The lower ramp does not require any transfer of parts. As I've done in the past, I also offer to do the assembly of your ramp with your parts sent to me. If you remove the parts as snyper2009 demonstrated on page 7 and send them to me I will install them on a new ramp for $25. If you or someone you know can do the riveting for you, great. I'm also offering to help anyone learn how to do their own assembly. I haven't established the shipping cost yet but expect it to be between $20 and $25.

There has been a lot of discussion on these in this thread concerning the differences between the clear and the black which are made of PETG vs the red and blue which are made of acrylic. Cliffy is also going to offer additional ramp protectors as well as a new flap for the bottom ramp.

If you have any questions, feel free to pm me. Now that you know the basics for the pricing, let me know if you want to get on the list for these.

Mark

#361 6 years ago
Quoted from Chitownpinball:

So when do I send you my ramp? I have company 6/24-7/4 so id like to have all my machines up and running while people are staying with me. Can I still stay on the list if I delay a bit? I can pay up front if needed...PM me.

Sending pm

#362 6 years ago

First out of the bath... Finishing up some upper ramps today and thought I'd perform my stupid tradition and post first photos of some that are done and ready for flaps! They're still wet. The second photo is probably one of the better ones to show how the red really looks.

IMG_0819.JPG IMG_0820.JPG
#365 6 years ago

Technical stuff...

Since snyper2099 was kind enough to take the time and document the parts associated to the upper ramp that I would need if I was doing assembly, I asked him to go ahead and send me his parts for the first assembly. I discovered something interesting when I was inventorying his parts. In the photo below are two factory ramp protectors (left side entrance to upper ramp). Two different lengths!

The longer protector is the one provided by Nelly for the models and the lower one is the one I received from snyper2099. Note the difference in length. The shorter is approximately 5" in length and the longer is approximately 5.5" in length. The distance from the upper mounting screw to the rivet hole is consistent on both...just the overall length is different. This will make a difference as to where the mounting holes are drilled.

If I am doing your assembly, I will of course position it accordingly. If you plan on doing your assembly, I will either need to know the length of your protector so I can pre-drill accordingly, or if requested, I will leave these holes not drilled so that you can position the protector.

Anyway, sort of interesting.

IMG_0822.JPG

#369 6 years ago
Quoted from dothedoo:

Nah, I think it's just an optical illusion.
illusion.jpg

No, It's not an optical illusion

Quoted from snyper2099:

Could possibly be because my SOF is a sample game.

I have the original set that Nelly sent me that has the longer protector. Both the protector from snyper2099 AND the game on loan to me have the shorter protector.

#370 6 years ago

1st assembled clear upper ramp with supplied parts.IMG_0824.JPG

#373 6 years ago
Quoted from AndyBadCatsUK:

Hi Mark mine is the European model and has 5.5 inches in length

Noted!

#375 6 years ago

OK.... I'm just about ready...Sending this post to alert you that later today I will post the final pricing...mostly shipping stuff. I will start taking orders tomorrow and then will just pound through until I get everyone covered. I am still waiting on the roll over punches for those who wanted it, but they should be here in just a couple days.

#380 6 years ago
Quoted from TecumsehPlissken:

Idk why pic. wont load said no uploader I.D ?

I had that problem the other day... I clicked on "insert in post" and then it went in. Interesting on yet a third design. Would like to see the photo if you can get it uploaded.

#383 6 years ago

I think that's my favorite design yet!

#385 6 years ago

OK...Final Ramp pricing...

Upper ramp pre drilled for mounting and flap installed $135 (Specify color)
Lower ramp $40 (Specify Color)

Assembly with your supplied parts $25
Assembly with your supplied ramp $30

Rivets and Washers for self assembly $3
Rivet Roll Over Punch $25 (SORRY SOLD OUT)
Black plastic conduit for wiring concealment $3

Shipping Domestic US $23
Shipping Domestic US with old ramp return $28

Shipping Canada (No ramp return) $28

International shipping contact me... Generally I charge $10 above actual postage for handling and steeper Paypal fees.

If You want me to do your assembly mail parts to:

Mark Davis
20409 2nd Ave SE
Bothell, WA 98012

Payment via Paypal to [email protected]

I will include the decal set provided by Ben Avary (Pinsider Chosen_S) to those who specifically request it. Donations for the decal set can be sent via Paypal to [email protected].... Sorry these are all gone.

Questions??? Shoot me a pm

Time to rock!

IMPORTANT.... I WILL NEED TO KNOW IF YOUR UPPER RAMP FACTORY PROTECTOR IS 5" IN LENGTH OR 5 1/2" IN LENGTH SO I CAN PRE-DRILL APPROPRIATELY... NOT AN ISSUE IF I AM DOING ASSEMBLY.

#390 6 years ago

Rivet roll over punches are sold out! Everyone who requested one as of now will get them.... They should be to me in just a couple days!

If you want one I can tell you where to get them.

Thanks!...Mark

#393 6 years ago

Thanks to a couple folks....

Dave (Nelly), thanks for donating the ramps so that I could do this project. Couple photos below of your assemble one. Your stuff will ship tomorrow.

Ben Avary (Chosen_S), thanks for taking the time to make decals for the guys.

Also thanks to snyper2099 for taking the time to post photos of how to disassemble your ramps for those of you who are sending me the parts to install for you. Also to offer the idea of the directional LED under the upper ramp entrance which worked VERY well. Your ramps ship tomorrow morning too!

After I finished assembling Nelly's ramp I have to admit I did stop for a beer! Now on the the rest of you!

Thanks everyone!....Mark// Error: Image 420106 not found //// Error: Image 420107 not found //

#397 6 years ago

Details... Just a reminder... If you are doing your own assembly and want me to pre-drill for the upper ramp, left side entrance protector, you will need to let me know the length of your factory protector. If you want to drill your own let me know, but I would highly recommend that if you chose a colored (acrylic) upper ramp, that you let me do the drilling....acrylic can be damaged when drilling if you are not careful and you will feel better if I mess up than if you do. Drilling is much safer with the clear or black ramps (PETG)

On another note, exchanged some emails with Cliffy last night and the protectors for the right side of the upper ramp and both sides of the lower ramp, along with a new flap for the lower ramp if interested are at the laser cutters now so they should be available soon.

For any international shippers that want me to include the Cliffy Protectors with their orders, you can order direct with Cliffy and instruct him to send to me for consolidation with your ramp order.

#398 6 years ago

CLIFFY UPDATE.

Just heard from Cliff and he wanted to pass along that he is unable to communicate back via Pinside and wants to assure you he is on top of this.

If you want to contact Cliff directly, use his outside email address...

[email protected]

#410 6 years ago

Have to admit I could not have done this without a machine on site to fit. Will always run into subtle differences and some not so subtle...like three different factory ramp protectors! I intend to post a few things I found as well...For those of you doing your own installation you will find that the factory ramp protector for the left side entrance of the upper ramp will fit better if you shave a little metal off the bottom of the protector right at the entrance...I have some photos I'll post. My upper ramp has a greater radius at the lower edges....better strength, but it affects the how the protector fits. I will do this slight modification to all the ones that I assemble.

Both look nice and I know they look even better in person! Good job guys! Thanks for sharing photos!

#411 6 years ago

I wanted to post some information concerning assembly for those of you that are doing your own. Many of you have purchased the "rivet kit" and I wanted to explain what is in the kit and where to use the specific sizes of rivets as well as the washers.

The kit contains the following pieces...

All the rivets have the same head size and rivet diameter. The only difference in the rivets is the length.

7/32" 11 + 1 extra
3/16" 4 + 1 extra
1/4" 1

1 Small diameter washer
1 Larger diameter/thinner washer

The 1/4" long rivet and small diameter washer are used to attach the factory upper ramp protector to the wall of the ramp

The 3/16" long rivets are for attaching the 3 lane lights and the flasher...note.. use the larger diameter/thinner washer on last for the flasher...just needs a little more "thickness" for a tight hold.

The remaining 7/32" rivets are for everything else

The factory ramps had sharp lower edges. Over time these sharp edges are the first to break. My ramps allow for a greater radius at these points for greater durability. However, that greater radius conflicts with the factory protector in the area of the upper ramp flap. To make the fit better, I shaved a little off the lower edge of the protector... Couple photos of what I did...
IMG_0833a.jpgIMG_0834a.jpg

#414 6 years ago
Quoted from bjones:

I'll definitely take a set of the clears for mine.
Brandon

Ready when you are...Pricing on page 8

1 week later
#417 6 years ago

Was just notified that Cliffy has sent me a package!!!!

#420 6 years ago
Quoted from BALL_LESS1:

Mark, I'm curious of how the popularity of the SOF ramp colors are distributed. I'm guessing Clear, followed by Red, then Blue?

For upper ramps that have been sold or committed to, her is the percentage distribution for clear and colored.

Clear 73%
Red 18%
Blue 3%

Lower ramp distribution by clear and colored...

Clear 59%
Red 24%
Blue 12%

#424 6 years ago
Quoted from BALL_LESS1:

Interesting, thanks for the update.I hope the new ramp owners post pictures of their combinations and variations. Was there anyone that only bought one ramp? For example, the kept their original lower, but went with a clear upper?

There was only one guy that said he wanted just an upper ramp but I have not heard back from him. Guy in Norway bought a clear upper and then both a clear and red lower.

Hoping the Cliffy's will be delivered tomorrow. If so, I'll post photos of them as well as in the game (which I need to install ramps in first!) probably on Sunday... Going up to play in the mountains tomorrow.

#427 6 years ago

Basically if you are domestic, you will go to Cliffy directly for the protectors. I should have samples probably tomorrow and if I get them I will post photos on Sunday. I did ask Cliff to send me a few extra sets so that I could consolidate for International customers. Those customers will pay Cliffy directly then I will send them with their ramps.

#428 6 years ago

Well...after I ship a set of ramps to Methos, I'll take a couple days off...since I ran out of clear plastic as well as 7/32" rivets! More coming...Cheers!

#429 6 years ago
Quoted from Chosen_S:

Stay away from the poison oak!
That stuff sucks!!!

I have a place on a small river with a covered trailer on it.....and a back hoe to dig holes and bury stumps! No poison oak, but if I look hard enough I can find nettles.

#431 6 years ago

The Cliffy's are here! Installed perfectly. Included in the set are the lower ramp right and left protectors, lower ramp flap and the upper ramp right side entrance protector.

The Set.JPG
Lower Ramp 1.JPG
Lower ramp 2.JPG
Upper Ramp.JPG
Lower Ramp L Installed.JPG
Lower Ramp R Installed.JPG
Upper Ramp Installed.JPG
Lower Ramp Entrance.JPG

#434 6 years ago