(Topic ID: 124095)

Switch tech help please (what did I just F*&^ up)


By 85vett

4 years ago



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  • 33 posts
  • 11 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by 85vett
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider

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proc-noplate-headon-160.jpg
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IMG_6199.jpg

#1 4 years ago

So I was trying to dial in my BOP after my restoration. I played several games on it and things worked fine. Just noticed that the pops were not sensitive enough and the lower pop switch wasn't registering.

I went to adjust the switches and I noticed that one the lower pop that the two of the blades (the ones in the pic below specifically). When I went to separate them my switches went crazy and a couple of coils fired. I thought that maybe the diode blew but I replaced it and things still don't work.

Before the diode replacement my inlane switches were the only ones that were recognizing correctly. After the new diode when I press them in switch test they register unused switches. In switch test I still random coils firing which I can't explain as in coil test they all work perfectly. Also, while in switch test, several switches don't show anything now but if I leave the game idle switches will start cycling on and off at random.

Lastly, now when I press the right flipper button it fires the right flipper as well as the coil that shoots a ball into the shooter lane.

What in the word did I just screw up? Guess from this point on I'll turn the game off to adjust switches. I've always done that with the game on so I could see how sensitive they are.

IMG_6199.jpg

#2 4 years ago

DID you put the Diode back in the correct orientation?

#3 4 years ago

Yes. I triple checked that I put it back in the right direction. I just checked again and it's correct (matches the others). The striped end goes to the leaf without any wires to it and the side without the stripe is going to the leaf with the cream color wires.

#5 4 years ago

Yeah, you more than shorted a transistor, I think you probably blew your switch matrix. If it's returning more than one switch at once, you either have a physical short (unlikely, given the double activation with the flipper button), or you blew a chip that manages the switch signals on the mpu (probably u20). The coils are firing randomly in switch mode because they think the switch they're tied to is active. If you tell us exactly what switches it says are active when you hit another switch, we can probably tell you what failed.

#6 4 years ago

Uploading a video right now I just took.

I should call out that I have a PROC board on this since it's BOP 2.0. No fuses blew and they all look good. If I blew something would that be on the PROC or power driver board? Really hoping I didn't blow something though as I'm broke with this restoration

Video

#7 4 years ago

I guessing you adjusted with the power on, likely shorted coil voltage to the switch lines. Actually pull the fuses and meter test then. "looks good" does not mean they are good.

#8 4 years ago

Oh, no idea to be honest. Never even seen a PROC board. It wouldn't be the power driver though. You probably did blow something, but without schematics, I have no clue what.

#9 4 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

I guessing you adjusted with the power on, likely shorted coil voltage to the switch lines. Actually pull the fuses and meter test then. "looks good" does not mean they are good.

How would he be getting any switches without 12v? I don't know PROC, but assuming it uses a standard switch matrix voltage, you either have switches or you don't. Optos might be an exception, but I don't think BOP has any, does it?

#10 4 years ago

BoP has no optics. they would be 12V. switches are 5v aren't they, not sure. I'm just saying don't assume that a fuse that looks fine is. Verify it, otherwise he can be chasing ghosts all over. Start with the simplest things first. He likely blew something on the board, but even if he did and there is also some fuse issue, fixing the board won't make it work since it would still have a fuse issue. spend 3 minutes with a meter to eliminate any potential of that, not a visual inspection. Then move on. Proc schematics are be online. http://www.pinballcontrollers.com/index.php/products/p-roc/documentation

#11 4 years ago

All fuses tested and are good.

Also - PROC uses a matrix as well and BOP has no optos.

#12 4 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

All fuses tested and are good.
Also - PROC uses a matrix as well.

good, and well bad, it eliminates the simplest possible issue.

#13 4 years ago

I'm so mad at myself right now. Trying to get things playing better and I screw the whole thing up....

#14 4 years ago

go into 1.0 run old school switch testes there. see what shows open and closed and what works as expected.

#15 4 years ago

Tried, but the game wont let me switch to 1.0. When I press the flippers the left one doesn't do anything and the right one fires the coil and the outhole kickerbut wont move anything. It's not recognizing that the flipper switch is being closed.

#16 4 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

I'm so mad at myself right now.

Please don't be. You'll get through this.

LTG : )™

#17 4 years ago

start the machine, hold start to get to the menu. if you get that far use the service menu buttons to go left to 1.0. it might work.

#18 4 years ago

The bad news -
I have confirmed I fried the PROC I wound up just converting the game back to 1.0 so that I could test things out. Everything works perfectly with the old switch board.

The great news -
I completely forgot that the makers of PROC are local to me (boy am I lucky there). Gerry responded back to my e-mail to them in mins and said I could bring the board by his house tonight to trouble shoot it and that he had some boards in stock if I needed to replace it. The offer to come to his house to trouble shoot it for some simple fixes before replacing it caught me as a pleasant surprise. Super top notch guy! Hopefully I get lucky and we can fix it.

I'm still pissed at myself for doing something so stupid as frying a brand new board. Learned my lesson for sure.

#19 4 years ago

Yep, I think my "breaking point" for adjusting switches when the game was on came when I got hit with 70vdc three times in one night. Clearly, I'm somewhat akin with a cow because I had to get hit with the prod a few times to stop doing that. It's a miracle I've never killed anything... I still do LED conversions with the game on. All it's going to take is dropping an errant light socket onto a coil lug..

#20 4 years ago

Sorry about the SNAFU, but congrats on the (hopefully) painless resolution!

Mistakes like this can stir up great feelings of self-loathing, but fret not, you won't make the same mistake again.

#21 4 years ago
Quoted from Frax:

Yep, I think my "breaking point" for adjusting switches when the game was on came when I got hit with 70vdc three times in one night. Clearly, I'm somewhat akin with a cow because I had to get hit with the prod a few times to stop doing that. It's a miracle I've never killed anything... I still do LED conversions with the game on. All it's going to take is dropping an errant light socket onto a coil lug..

so should have avatar be change to Hit Me- with 70v.

#22 4 years ago
Quoted from calvin12:

so should have Avatar be change to Hit Me- with 70v.

Ha! That's a good one, thankfully, I'm not that skilled with photoshop....that pic was actually taken from my re-cleared Jackbot playfield before I put it in the game.

#23 4 years ago

Send me the original photo and I'll see if I can make it for you

#24 4 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

Send me the original photo and I'll see if I can make it for you

It's more a readability issue than a lack-of-skill issue..I just don't see how it would fit, and I'm not really interested in cropping the avatar out any smaller, or rotating the text.

#25 4 years ago

but a small w/70v under the me would be hilarious.

#26 4 years ago

I have an idea but might take me a few days to get to it.

#27 4 years ago

2.jpg
It's making me less mad at myself at least. Quick and crappy redo try.

#28 4 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

The bad news -
I have confirmed I fried the PROC I wound up just converting the game back to 1.0 so that I could test things out. Everything works perfectly with the old switch board.
The great news -
I completely forgot that the makers of PROC are local to me (boy am I lucky there). Gerry responded back to my e-mail to them in mins and said I could bring the board by his house tonight to trouble shoot it and that he had some boards in stock if I needed to replace it. The offer to come to his house to trouble shoot it for some simple fixes before replacing it caught me as a pleasant surprise. Super top notch guy! Hopefully I get lucky and we can fix it.
I'm still pissed at myself for doing something so stupid as frying a brand new board. Learned my lesson for sure.

If it makes you feel any better, I fried a brand new Alltek MPU when I tried to jump some backbox led strips to it. Luckily those are completely covered and I just had to send it back for a free repair. I felt really stupid.

#29 4 years ago
Quoted from 85vett:

I'm so mad at myself right now. Trying to get things playing better and I screw the whole thing up....

stop hitting yourself

#30 4 years ago

I blew the chase light board on BoP when I got a miswired connector for a topper. shit happens, fix it, get it fixed, then move on.

#31 4 years ago

I hope Gerry can get it running for you. Nice job on the 'shop.

#32 4 years ago

Not bad...not bad...I'm gonna use that one for a little while until I get time with a computer that has more than MS Paint...

#33 4 years ago

Back up and running. HUGE thanks to Gerry from P-ROC. He went through the board and was able to replace a couple of items that were messed up. Super lucky that they are local to me and that they are also so willing to help out.

I don't recall what these parts where called but the bellow 3 are what he had to replace.

proc-noplate-headon-160.jpg

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