(Topic ID: 54263)

Specific Switch Matrix Help - DE LAH - Working now!

By btw75

10 years ago


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  • 13 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 years ago by trueno92
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#1 10 years ago

LAH #31,47,57 switches are not working. When hooked to a multi meter, there is a little change in resistance between posts and voltage when the switch is closed, so I feel like the mechanical part of the switch is fine. I've attached the switch matrix here - I tried to learn about it and I don't fully understand - but I still don't see a connection between those 3 switches. My next step, I suppose, is to disconnect the diode and test it - Any other suggestions before I do that? I'm not overly confident with solder capabilities.

Thanks!

Note: I started a new thread for this issue because the old title wasn't very descriptive of actual problem

LAH_Switch_Matrix.JPGLAH_Switch_Matrix.JPG

#2 10 years ago

Forget diode.

I'd be checking continuity of wires from switch to board in the head. More likely you have a poor connection or broken wire causing you problems.

LTG : )

#3 10 years ago

Have you tested all the switches? Sometimes it's not the switch with the issue, it's one daisy chained to it in the matrix.

I would recommend printing the matrix you posted and checking each switch and checking the ones that work, and x'ing the ones that don't. Patterns form of issues this way, for example three in the end of row may be out, but the rest of the row works, this will say that the forth last switch, which is working, likely has a broken wire from it to the next daisy chained switch that is not working, despite the not working switch appearing to be fine.

#4 10 years ago

Atomicboy- I did exactly that - Those 3 are the only ones that I could not get to register in switch test mode. I was hoping it would have showed a pattern. I'm gonna start with LTG's thought and do some simple continuity tests.

#5 10 years ago

31 and 47 share a return line (wht-vio), so that wire could be broken. 57 has no correlation to the other two, so is probably a different problem.

#6 10 years ago

OK - I checked continuity to the CPU board for both 31 & 57 and it was continuous -- I didn't check 47 because it shares the same wht-vio as terryb says - and it is a royal pain to get to.

What next? I'll prob try to get to 47 to test continuity just for completeness' sake.

#7 10 years ago

Ok - Checked 47 - AND found the wht/violet disconnected. Soldered that back on but no change. Continuous to CPU board. Any other recommendations on what I can do to troubleshoot? The more I think about it, if 3 diodes were bad I'd have problems all over the board. This takes me back to the switches themselves, or something quirky on a board. Not sure where to start with that, would prefer not to just shotgunning by replacing boards.

#8 10 years ago

Ok, good work, now you know there are no board issues (other than as Lloyd mentioned, possible connector issues, but it appears you buzzed those out). It could be a cracked header, but I have personally never had a cracked header issue within the switch matrix.

I myself would now look to the daisy chains for each switch. For 57, i would check 41 and 58, as the daisy chain may be broken on one of these to 57. You can check for proper continuity between daisy chained switches of the same row/column by measuring along the row or column wire from switch to switch in the matrix. For the other two, if you are sure all the other switches are working around them, it must be the switch itself. If the above is ok for 57 as well, proceed with checking the switch.

First, make sure you actually hear a “click” when activating the switch arms. Test this with the diode/continuity setting on your DMM. I can’t recall which tabs are for positive and negative, but it matters. Test this first on a working switch, and you’ll see the pattern, when the switch closes, this completes the circuit and you get a buzz, or 0 ohms (or close to it), depending on your DMM. Now test this on the switches with issue. If you close the switch, and get no change, the micro switch is bad, which can happen.

Also, make sure the switch arm hasn’t been bent oddly, in that when depressed it doesn’t move enough to activate the small button on the micro switch itself.

Also, I am curious as to how a broken wire was found for 47, but all other switches in the row were working fine before soldering it back on. Are you checking for the working switch in the switch test and making sure it displays that actual switch when activating it?

#9 10 years ago

SO - I basically spent a good amount of time messing with switches and connections, trying to figure out a pattern - then I put it all together and it worked. No idea why, but it is nice to have it all working now. Atomic- the wires on 47 were still soldered to each other, but not to the switch post - so the rest of the chain was fine.

Hopefully theses gremlins are over with for now. Thanks for the help and support.

Now to figure out how to get the crane to drop in the right place - saw a thread on that somewhere!

-Brandon

#10 10 years ago
Quoted from Atomicboy:

Also, I am curious as to how a broken wire was found for 47, but all other switches in the row were working fine before soldering it back on.

The order of the switches, as it relates to physical wiring, is not necessarily the same as the switch matrix indicates. In other words, while the switch matrix would lead you to believe that switch 63 is the last one in the row, 47 may actually be the final switch in the daisy chain for that row.

#11 10 years ago

No problem. More than likely the switches hadn't been used in some time, and the "play" made them work again.

The crane is a HUGE pain in the ass. You have to adjust it with an allen key in the side, and keep playing with it until it stops and activates the switch at both ends. When I shopped mine I spent about 3 hours on the stupid crane alone after it was done.

#12 10 years ago

Also - I did find out that 31 was "working" but then not - because a diode wire had broke but was sitting right on top of the connection making it extra sketchy. I have a bit of solder on there now but I don't think it will last. I think I need to order an extra diode to keep around for the eventual breakage.
So in summary, it was two bad connections causing 3 problems. One pair of wires completely broken off one switch and one diode wire broken off another.

-Till next time -
Brandon. Thanks again for the help.

8 years later
#13 2 years ago

Just bumping this as my vuk worked but everything else in green blu was out. I guess its good practice to go up and down the matrix column! Thanks!!

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