(Topic ID: 56321)

Switch Matrix gone Crazy! Barracora

By Pinballrus

10 years ago


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  • 30 posts
  • 8 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 3 years ago by hisokajp
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#1 10 years ago

After finally believing I had all issues sorted out with my Barracora rescue, the switch matrix has now gone nuts!

The only 2 rows that are still functional are rows 5 & 6.

Pushing a switch on the others will trigger all switches for that row!

I've given it a good visual inspection, but haven't seen anything suspicious. I also disconnected and reconnected the connectors, with no difference.

Both the Power Board and CPU / Driver board are brand new rottendogs.

Is this likely a board issue? Or a Playfield issue? Seems strange to have board issues with the new ones.

Where can I start to to get this girl back up and running?

#2 10 years ago

Do you have a meter?

#3 10 years ago

I would look to see if a diode has come loose, is shorting to a coil bracket, etc first. There could have been a short of the solenoid voltage to the switch matrix for instance already going on in the game and when you put the new boards in, poof good bye switch matrix PIA.

#4 10 years ago
Quoted from Xenon75:

I would look to see if a diode has come loose, is shorting to a coil bracket, etc first. There could have been a short of the solenoid voltage to the switch matrix for instance already going on in the game and when you put the new boards in, poof good bye switch matrix PIA.

I think I've checked the diodes, but will go back over them.
Oh man, I hope it's not the PIA (Edit - Realized these are now socketed! Woohoo!)

The game *was* working for a about a dozen games, and then all of a sudden started acting up in the middle of a game.

I do have a DMM.

#5 10 years ago

What did it do when it started acting up?

#6 10 years ago
Quoted from Xenon75:

What did it do when it started acting up?

Everything was working fine during the middle of a game, I think I went over the center rollover switch (not positive that was the one) and shit went crazy, the bell rang, credits added, game reset (maybe highscore reset?)

In the switch test mode, you register all switches in a row with a single switch.

#7 10 years ago

That is where I would start... maybe the switch when activated hit the power feed for the GI or controlled lamps? Something fed some voltage into the matrix and the game wasn't happy. There are a couple other IC's (7406 / 4049) in the path before the PIA so maybe it just affected them.

To test the switch matrix in the game, first remove both Switch Matrix connectors on the top right of the driver board. J2 is Column (green wires) and J3 is Row (white wires).

Then run a switch test from diagnostics, you should get no switches being sensed.

Use an alligator test lead as follows:
Connect one end of the test lead's alligator clip to the column pin, starting at column 1. That's the bottom pin of J2.

Then use the other end of the test lead to touch the appropriate row pins.
Start at the bottom pin of J3, which is row 1. You should see switch #1 indicated (R1C1).

Move the probe to the next pin up on J3, which is row #2. You should see switch #2 indicated (R2C1).

When you got to the top of the row pins, move the clip end to COL #2 (up one pin) and start again with row #1.

Activate each switch in turn by connecting the appropriate 2 male pins on the CPU board with your test lead.

Using your switch matrix chart from the manual as a guide, you may find the faults as your game "sees" on the same switches.

If you get an error in sequence, more than one switch registers at a time or you are missing a row or column - then you know the problem must be on the board. You can either try to fix it or send the board out for repair.

If the above test works correctly, meaning all switches register correctly then your problem must be the wiring or on the playfield.

#8 10 years ago

Thanks will follow your instructions tonight and report back. Realized the PIA would be much less of a big deal now that it is socketed!

#9 10 years ago

oh well shit, if all of those IC's are socketed yes you could shotgun it and get it going in minutes. the tough part is finding why it happened in the first place and fixing it so it doesn't happen again.

You can test the 7406 and the PIA with your DMM by the way. I can send you that procedure if need be.

#10 10 years ago

Did the test above and found it's column 3 that is messed up. Any thing that touches that will trigger an entire row of switches. I swapped the PIA with no luck.

#11 10 years ago

It's probably the 7406. Did you find what caused it?

#12 10 years ago

Because it's an aftermarket board, I'm not positive which chip that is anymore! I took some photos, maybe you can help me identify?

In the second photo, c151 is the bad column. I tried to trace where it went into, but was slightly confused. Any thoughts?

// Error: Image 115292 not found // // Error: Image 115293 not found //

#13 10 years ago
Quoted from Xenon75:

It's probably the 7406. Did you find what caused it?

I'm not sure about this, I found a couple diodes that may have touched metal. Would this be enough to cause a short and fry the chip? It's hard to say if they were the culprit since it wouldn't fix anything to move them away from the metal.

#14 10 years ago

I'd give Jim at Rottendog a call and he will walk you though it.

I can't read the chip numbers on my phone, but it looks like he has replaced the two normal 7406 chips with a single chip (probably the socketed 24 pin chip).

Also note that for future repairs, Leon's test chip code is already installed on the board (how cool is that???):

http://rottendog.us/images/MPU327%20Install.pdf

#15 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

I'd give Jim at Rottendog a call and he will walk you though it.
I can't read the chip numbers on my phone, but it looks like he has replaced the two normal 7406 chips with a single chip (probably the socketed 24 pin chip).
Also note that for future repairs, Leon's test chip code is already installed on the board (how cool is that???):
http://rottendog.us/images/MPU327%20Install.pdf

Cool, just spoke with Jim and he identified the chip for me.

Thanks for the help all!

#16 10 years ago

New chip installed and we're back in business!

Thanks for all the help everyone! And props to Jim at Rottendog as well!

#17 10 years ago
Quoted from Pinballrus:

New chip installed and we're back in business!
Thanks for all the help everyone! And props to Jim at Rottendog as well!

Sweet!

-mof

#18 10 years ago

Congrats on the fix!

#19 10 years ago

Oh, and what was the chip?

#20 10 years ago
Quoted from vid1900:

Oh, and what was the chip?

Ended up being the socketed chip in the 2nd pic, the one on the right side. I don't have the # on hand. Love those socketed chips!

#21 10 years ago

Hope its fixed for good this time!

#22 10 years ago
Quoted from practicalsteve:

Hope its fixed for good this time!

Ha! You and me both! You better come by and get some games in while it's still playing!

#23 10 years ago
Quoted from practicalsteve:

Hope its fixed for good this time!

If it's not broken, it's not pinball - JJ

#24 10 years ago

Hi all. Still learning about repairs and just wanted to clarify that IC = integrated circuit and what the purpose of the PIA was. I've looked around on pinball news and a few other places and can't seem to find a solid answer.

#25 10 years ago
Quoted from ShootForSlrValue:

what the purpose of the PIA was. I've looked around on pinball news and a few other places and can't seem to find a solid answer.

PIA stands for peripheral interface adapter. The CPU board "sees" the driver board as an Output device for firing the solenoids. When the CPU wants to fire a solenoid it sends signals across the 40pin connector data bus. The 40pin connector allows CPU board to communicate with the driver boards using TTL level (0 or +5v) signals. From there the PIA IV sitting on driver board will look at the blanking circuit and input from CPU board (both are needed) and fire the appropriate solenoid.

#26 10 years ago
Quoted from Pinballrus:

Hope its fixed for good this time!

Ha! You and me both! You better come by and get some games in while it's still playing!

I will be there to help play soon!

#27 10 years ago
Quoted from Spybryon:

PIA stands for peripheral interface adapter. The CPU board "sees" the driver board as an Output device for firing the solenoids. When the CPU wants to fire a solenoid it sends signals across the 40pin connector data bus. The 40pin connector allows CPU board to communicate with the driver boards using TTL level (0 or +5v) signals. From there the PIA IV sitting on driver board will look at the blanking circuit and input from CPU board (both are needed) and fire the appropriate solenoid.

THANK YOU!!!

#28 10 years ago
Quoted from Spybryon:

I will be there to help play soon!

Sure - you're welcome to come get some games in

Edit - Didn't realize that was you John. See ya tomorrow

7 years later
#29 3 years ago

I used this thread to help troubleshooting my project Barracora switch issues...

I hard 3 columns that would cycle through switch number doing switch testing on PF (2, 5 and 6), I used above test on the board from Xenon75 and identified that column 5 and 6 were a problem on the board.

I socketed and replaced the PIA IC11, i had a spare MC68B21P lying around but no 7406 so i started with that. It fixed most of the issues except that SW 47 and 48 do not register anything at all on the board alligator test now...

Which is weird because the other SW on column 6 are fine and so are the other SW on row 7 and 8...

Should I suspect my spare PIA to not be 100% or the 7504 at IC18 supporting column 8 at this point?

#30 3 years ago

i tried another PIA and still the same issue on SW 47 and 48. i'll try and get a 7504 today to replace IC18...

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