(Topic ID: 258397)

Switch 24 always closed: why?


By Pinblood28

59 days ago



Topic Stats

  • 17 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 56 days ago by Pinblood28
  • No one calls this topic a favorite

You

Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 2 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

IMG_20191230_010429 (resized).jpg
pasted_image (resized).png

#1 59 days ago

Hi everyone,
Please someone could tell me what is the function of the switch 24 and why it suppose to be "aways closed"? Where is located this switch?

I have a Bram Stoker Dracula pinball machine that have this switch "open" but no error message appears on the test. What that means?
The game, anyway, works without problems.
But if i would, how can i fix this switch?

Thanks

#2 59 days ago

Switch 24 is in the Coin door Interface board.
It is a directly-wired closed switch. (Hence, why it is named "Always Closed".)
The WPC OS looks at that switch (since it is *known* to be closed) to determine if there are any issues with the switch matrix.

#3 59 days ago

Open up the manual and locate switch 24 in the switch matrix chart.It will tell you what and where that switch is

I’m a TZ nut I should have known right off the bat..haha!! Old age starting to kick in

#4 59 days ago

Thanks for the reply. I have read the manual, but in the page of switch locations, there is a note down the page that says about the switch 24: "locations no specified" o something similar...

#5 59 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:

The WPC OS looks at that switch (since it is *known* to be closed) to determine if there are any issues with the switch matrix.

But so why the machine doesn't show error message on the display?

What can happen keeping the switch open?

Sorry for the numerouses questions, i am not expert and i'm worried for my pinball...

#6 59 days ago

Coin door interface board, as mentioned is what closes sw24. It is simply a diode on the board. What problem are you having making you work with the matrix?

#7 59 days ago

The matrix appear ok. Every switch appear on the correct setting, except for the 24 that appear "open".
Recently i have replaced the capacitor on the 10 opto board, because it was leaking and two switches (56 and 73) were working only 2-3 minutes after the turning on of the machine.
But now all switches appears ok.
The machine works fine and without errors.
But is only the switch 24 that results "open".
I don't know how to fix it.
It is dangerous for the pinball machine to keeping 24 sw open?

#8 59 days ago

With Switch 24 open, it will not hurt the game at all. You can fix it by verifying your Coin Door Interface board is plugged in properly.

#9 59 days ago
Quoted from Coyote:With Switch 24 open, it will not hurt the game at all. You can fix it by verifying your Coin Door Interface board is plugged in properly.

Thanks for the reply. I have checked the coin door interface board and it seems fine. I've gently push on the connectors, but nothing is changed. I haven't noticed "suspect" elements. I'm not expert with this kind of operation, so i was thinking to keep the machine in this condition. I'm a little scared to create eventual issues.

#10 58 days ago

Pretty simple circuit really, Col 2 pulse from J212 - 2 on the CPU board enters the Coin Door Interface on J1-7, whene the column pulse is negative D2 will conduct current and drive Row 4 low at J1-3 on the Coin door interface and at J212-8 on the CPU board.
pasted_image (resized).png

#11 58 days ago

Thank you for the schematics.
Looking at the circuit it brings me a doubt.
I've noticed that the J212 connector is involved in functioning of switch 24. So i am gone to look my J212 and it has appeared not in very good condition: it is "blackened".
Since i haven't found nothing of suspect on the coin door interface board,
can be this J212 the cause of switch 24 opened?

Is there a way to understand if this connector works good?

It is eventually hard and difficult to replace?
Thanks for help.

IMG_20191230_010429 (resized).jpg
#12 57 days ago
Quoted from Pinblood28:

Since i haven't found nothing of suspect on the coin door interface board,
can be this J212 the cause of switch 24 opened?

It's possible; I do find it odd that this cable looks so different than the others connected to the CPU board; that being said, this is a signal connector and is a very low failure item as the cover over the connector not only keeps dirt out, it also keeps the wires tight in the connector so they should never get loose. The main cause of this connectors failure is corrosion from leaking batteries or storage in poor environmental conditions.

Quoted from Pinblood28:

Is there a way to understand if this connector works good?

Yes, but it depends on what you have available to test this; probably the easiest thing to do is to remove J212 and use a jumper to connect J212-2 and J212-8 together on the CPU board. If switch 24 remains open at this point, the issue is on the CPU board; if this is the case, I would be curious if J208 looks like it was replaced.

If you determine the CPU is reading the closure properly, the best way to test the other side of the circuit is to use something that's both small enough to fit into the J212 connectors sockets and conductive so that you can put your meter on it...the leg from a diode or resistor works very well, you will need 2 of them, one for position 2 and one for position 8. You then measure the resistance between the two with your black lead on position 2 (GRN/RED) and the red lead on position 8 (WHT/YEL); the expected result is a very low measurement, nearly a dead short.

If this test failed, move to the coin door interface board. Remove J1 and put the black lead on pin J1-7 and the red lead on pin 3 of the header; the expected result is a very low measurement, nearly a dead short. If this test fails the problem is on the interface board, if it passes its the cable.

The cable can only be easily diagnosed to which of the two wires/connectors is not making contact...unless you have a set of needle probes that are designed to pierce the wire insulation to take measurements between the connectors in order to determine which connector is bad...most people will not have these available and will have to rely on a visual inspection of the wires at the connection points.

Quoted from Pinblood28:

It is eventually hard and difficult to replace?

The answer to this is relative to what tools and parts you have available. For me this would be an easy repair that would take a couple of minutes, but only because I have both the original Pancon Mas-Con connectors that were used is the manufacture of this machine as well as the setting tool used to press the wires into the connectors. There are IDC and crimp style substitutes for this connector but I have limited experience with them.

Hope this helps.

#13 57 days ago

Great explanation. All is more clear for me now. The problem is that i'm not very experienced with this kind of operations.

If i would replace the female idc J212 connector, i must necessarily replace also the male 8 pin header? If i not replace the male but only female idc, what can happens?

I've noticed that also Coin door closed switch it's not working...
What are all the the elements relate to the J212? Aniways, if it is related, the tilt plumb switch works.

If i buy a new idc female connector, what charateristics it must have? What are the operations that i must observe for replacing? How i must precisely insert the wires in the new idc connector?
Thanks for help and happy new year!

#14 57 days ago

Update:

I've removed the J212 connector and cleaned it with isoprophilic alcol and brush. Next, i've reinserted the connector and test machine.
Now the switch 24 result closed and coin door switch worls correctly.
Now, what you suggest me? Let all as is or replace anyways the connector?
Thanks

#15 57 days ago

After cleaning, it will probably be OK for a long time. If it some day starts acting up again, then replace.

#16 56 days ago
Quoted from Tuukka:

After cleaning, it will probably be OK for a long time. If it some day starts acting up again, then replace.

I agree, for this connector I would leave it be, if it acts up again you can try some deoxIT on it.

#17 56 days ago

Ok, many thanks to all. I will replace it in future only if it will be necessary.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
$ 5.00
$ 159.99
Lighting - Other
Lighted Pinball Mods
From: $ 11.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
ULEKstore
$ 63.50
$ 399.95
Lighting - Led
Pin Stadium Pinball LEDs

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside