My view is a lot of not liking a game has to do with reaffirming other decisions that you made.

When folks post online all they are really doing is confirming to themselves that they were right. Online is the way to do this because no one has balls enough to vent off to someone face to face about how much they hate a game if the person they are taking to likes it. It feels good also to see others post similar views as your own so you can reaffirm yourself even more. Once or twice is OK, but I want to ask - does posting 20 times that you love or hate a game really make folks feel 20X better about their decisions?

Problem is that the games are usually not that bad and still fun to play. My friends and I love our SW and can't stop hitting start on this game. I am not just saying that for resale value either. It is like IM to me - drain, start, drain, start......

If you don't like it totally fine, but to post 20 times to make yourself feel good and reaffirm your decision about buying TNA or sticking with older BW pins or DI or you may be just boycotting Stern or high pinball prices is all a little much. Folks post like they want it to fail to really reaffirm themselves.

Even games I don't like like FT and GB I still play them and keep trying and don't go on and on about how I do not like them to everyone. It certainly does not make me feel good hating on games. I want every game to succeed and be fun to play even if it is not for me.

I do. It's just an opinion, and I don't lose respect for a person just because they love something I can't stand or vice versa. If anyone takes offense to an opinion, they're just not somebody I'd want to hang around with.

Didn't they build 800 STLE's and sold those? I agree with you, I think the problem is there isn't a big hardware or software difference between the Premium and LE. If they would have included SOMETHING that was different mechanically, we would be having a different discussion. I think if the target banks had magnets under it or , shaker or anti-glare-glass, or even the topper I would have bought one. Something I could make myself feel like the value was there.

That's my only gripe about SW ... I really like the game, but not enough to plunk down LE cash for it. People calling it "horrible" are completely wrong ... it may not be their particular "style" of pin, but it's a rock solid game and the software seems to be making it better and better.

I'll certainly pick one up eventually. For now, I'm hoping GotG is going to be my first NIB .

The demand for the LE isn't what it should be. But that could be attributable to the LE being pretty fungible with the Premium on this particular game.

It may well be that Pros and Premiums aren't selling well, in which case Stern should worry. But I haven't seen any data to support that (and I'm not sure we would, not like with the LE where it's either sold out or it hasn't).

Yes, but I can't remember how quickly they actually sold out. Too lazy to investigate! That said ...

True enough, but the general policy has been to not have the LE and Premiums differ on a mech/code/gameplay level -- the Premium is supposed to give you the "enhanced" gameplay of the LE without quite as much sticker shock. But as I understand it Stern has cut more and more corners on the LEs over the years (no more real backglass, no more light-up side rails, etc.) SW LE seems to be viewed as the least distinct from the Premium yet, which cannot be helping sales.

EDIT: Just for reference, here's @rarehero's list of features added to Star Trek LE that distinguish it from the Premium:
Shaker included
Different cab art
Mirrored backglass
Blue trim
Lit and animated laser cut rails (photon torpedo lights also seen on inside of cab)
Unique speaker panel with backlit starfleet speakers
Lit starfleet plexi insignias on the sides of the backbox

Of those, what's left on SW? "Different cab art" and "laser cut powder coated gloss black side armor" (no light show though). Serious cutbacks have been made to the LE package since Star Trek, and it's possible that actually matters to buyers at some point.

I really think the guys that shelled out for the LE should bare minimal get a shaker motor and invisglass as part of the package. I have been waiting for this title for a long time and really wanted to buy an LE but just couldn't bring myself to ante up the extra dough for the (imho) limited extras over the premium. Ended up ordering a premium which I hope to see sometime in the coming weeks.

I was interested in Star Wars LE and had a deposit down before I saw the art and layout. I decided an Attack From Mars Remake LE was a better buy. I liked Star Wars, however, it feels more like a racing game than a Star Wars game. Also, it feels wrong that in an LE they are not including a shaker motor (and perhaps their version of invisible glass). Look at what SWLE, AFMRLE, and DILE are offering. Star Wars is by far the most striped down version.

This does not make it a bad game however. I think it is over priced though.

Ah, yes. I do agree. I have a SW premium, and love it. Game play, graphics, sound, all good...but I do agree. If you pay that much for an LE, I'd expect more. Stern will step up their game, or...not. And the companies in the wings will rise. Welcome to capitalism. Let the best win.

Who are you even talking about? We need more people to post 20 times about how much better TNA is, not less!

Saw this comic strip thought it was worth sharing.

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AFM LE all the way!! Pin of the year!

Fuck the ratings, who cares? I'm having fun playing SW and wouldn't give 2 shits if it was #1 or #301.

Gameplay has to be there sure but I don't get how anyone could hate the theme and still enjoy the pin due to gameplay so it works both ways.

"Canadian tough" strikes again!

No idea what that means, I guess "American Dumb" strikes again!

People like pins for different reasons.... gameplay is number 1 for me by far, no matter the theme. I love magnets, interactive bash toys, subways, ramps . If theme is cool thats a plus but it dont matter to me that much in the overall experience of playing pinball.

I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE
I love my Avengers LE

Uh. TAV is a mess but I like playing it and not a bad game. Lol

SWLE is awesome.

STARWARS LE (resized).JPG

You own an LE like I do? Hide! Run! Lol! It sucks so bad, but I personally can't stop playing it. Seriously it is super fun for me.

Anyway - no need to pick a side folks. Like my tight group of friends in the ATL area has over 100 pins of all eras and companies so I can play about what ever and whenever I want and don't need to say to any one of my friends that I love or hate games they own. Why? Why?

I can't wait to play all my friends TNA's and dig into a DI from a new friend who lives close by that has one coming in a week or so! I hope they are both are awesome in a home use environment and would buy either of them in the future if they are. They played great at shows, so we will see. But if I don't love them I will not complain if others do love them. Nah. Just negative and a waste of energy. IMHO.

Pick a side and stick by it!!! No thanks.

Hate Metallica, Love my Metallica

HEY! How'd you get the short and fat edition?

You're totally skipping how the opinion is expressed. Someone can state an opinion in a cordial, adult manner - or like a complete A-Hole. An opinion expressed in the complete A-Hole manner is not "just" an opinion. Thus is many times the issue.

Absolutely correct! But I'm pretty sure I'm in the first camp of people when stating my opinion...unless I'm tweaking somebody that was being an asshole to begin with.

like I said it works both ways, some can overlook the theme if they like the gameplay and some can't. Some people right off a game due to lack of toys or magnets and artwork, thats the most ridiculous thing too me, oh that and "build quality"
you know because some pins are apparently made from cardboard, and other companies re make a game that requires zero creativity but its built well and thus better than lets say SW or AS because of that fact, what a joke.

Agree, have to play over and over for me to know whether gonna love or get bored. Thus trading woz for Metallica even though I cant stand Metallica music, woz is over built comparatively speaking, but in no way can keep up with the adrenaline Metallica gives me.

Punctuation is your friend...

Played the crap out of the pro a few months back and recently the premium.
Glad I didn't join the turd parade before flipping it.
Debate rank, but the game is addictive fun and suitable for all ages.
To each their own!

I am not at the point of having to make a statement when I review a game.

A fair amount of folks are mad at Stern and couldn't wait to bash on their big name title as soon as they could. It is hard,or a lot of time easy, to tell if someone really doesn't like SW or if they are trying to make a strong statement that they are unhappy with Stern CQ, coding, pricing etc, with their reviews and opinions. If you don't like SW that is ok, but I give every game a good shot before I write it off. It takes years for some games to click with me. Folks seemed a little too excited to bash SW with a few plays at a show or on location not knowing the rules at all. Even worse was the "I saw the video and ....." reviews. There are many true, no agenda, negative reviews on SW for sure though. Can't please everyone. It seemed like in a bunch of SW reviews folks were reviewing Stern the Company and not SW the pin.

I always flip things around to get a better feel from folks on where they are coming from. Like if Spooky came out with a SW Pro at $5300 and it was the same game as the Stern one I think folks would go bananas raving over it and falling all over themselves to by it. But Stern made it so hate hate hate.

On other new games I think that preordering a TNA Spooky version that folks have not actually played at $6300 does carry some risk with it and it is not a screaming value of a deal. That is a lot of money for what it is. DI at $8000-$9000 doesn't scream value to me either. Nothing around seems to be a slam dunk of a deal anymore. Heck Bally Williams games are really up there also in price. FH is a $4000 game. Where do folks go for value anymore? Where did the $4400 MET NIB go? Those days are long gone I guess. SW is a lot of money, so we all need to make wise decisions in our pin choices.

I will play TNA and DI again in my friends homes and hope that I like them. I will buy them down the road if I do. I hope I do. If I don't like them after 10 plays unleveled and not knowing the rules I am not going to go on Pinside saying how much I hate them. Heck 2 years and 1000 plays later I am not going on to say I hate them on Piniside. Doesn't make me happy and who am I protecting anyway?

I couldn't agree more about people just wanting to shit on a pin after just a few plays at a buddy's house or a local bar. In my experience it takes dozens of plays, and a real understanding of the rules to truly appreciate what the pin has to offer. I own several pins and what I have found is that the JJP, CGC pins are yes expensive, but you get a lot (relatively speaking). DI LE, WOZ RR, TH Smaug, MMRLE, AFMRLE are actually well built, with several fun toys, and actually have code thats 90% complete upon delivery (CGC games don't count). The JJP machines are modern day pinball, and are clearly built better than the modern Sterns (I have both). My kids love SW and thats enough for me....

#32

That sounds closer to where it should be now and I own the game. Still can't stop leaning to play and playing it.

Hopefully now, the people that have never played the machine will leave the ratings alone so we can see what people really think. The game is very different and good on you Stern for doing that. We have a few machines from most eras so this fits in to our collection well. I am sure that Star Wars fans will love the machine. My wife loves ours so it will not be going anywhere soon.

Ratings are all subjective and personal opinions. No need to get hung up on them. Yes it's ridiculous that a brand new pin has such a high ranking. SW is fun to me because it's Pinball but it's not a great game. Everyone has different tastes. For example I think Kiss is a hell of a game and very under rated.....many can't stand it and I could care less. Rankings are meant to be fun. Water finds its level and if enough honest rankings are submitted it will balance out. In 20 years let's see what games are in the top 20. The reality is very few new features have been added to pins.....that's helped some of these older games stay in the top 10-20 lists. Until new gameplay innovations happen I don't see the top 10-20 games changing too much.