(Topic ID: 277399)

Suspected rebranded 6808 - validate my theory?

By oliviarium

4 days ago

Topic Stats

  • 9 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 2 days ago by ralphwiggum
  • Topic is favorited by 3 Pinsiders


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    Tops (resized).jpg
    Bots (resized).jpg
    20200915_143045 (resized).jpg
    6808-front (resized).jpg
    6808-back (resized).jpg

    #1 4 days ago

    I ordered two 6808 processors from a vendor (who I'll not name until I have a chance to resolve this with them) for a Space Shuttle.

    When I received the machine, it had AMI 6808P processors for both the main and sound CPUs. Machine did not boot, but sound test would play. Swapping processors, machine would boot but sound was no longer working. So clearly one of my 6808s needed replacement.

    I ordered and received 2 of them, with the motorola logo and the following markings --


    So, suspicious right off the bat, as everything I've seen would suggest Motorola wasn't still making these in 2008. Neither worked in either the main or sound CPU positions.

    Contacted the vendor, they sent me two more, same markings, same result.

    Just on a whim, I decided to treat these as if they were Hitachi 6808s and bent out pin 38. Didn't try all four, but one from each batch worked as expected when pin 38 was bent out. I did this based on the info available on Pinwiki for System 9-11, which indicates that the XTAL pin should go to ground on non-hitachi 6808s, and this ground connection should not be present for Hitachi 6808s.

    So whats the likely scenario here? That these are pulled/remarked and are actually Hitachi 6808s? Something else?

    Note that in the meantime I located another AMI 6808 and the main and sound CPUs are working as expected. So my game is working... I just want to let the vendor know the problem with their stock and give them a chance to respond.


    #2 4 days ago

    With these markings:

    Then you are correct - these are obvious counterfeits. Date code is 0824 is more than 8 years after they were discontinued.
    "Last Time Buy" expired in December of 1999 with last time deliveries into the year 2000.

    No doubt remarks... what they were originally? We will never know.

    #3 3 days ago

    Here is something I have noticed with Hitachi and the rest. Per data sheet when external oscillator is used Hitachi leaves the P38 open circuit. Motorola and the rest say GROUND pin 38.

    In real world if you ground P38 of the hitachi chip, p37 the external clock stays high and board will not work. Motorola and STM, at least in brief testing, will work fine if P38 is open or grounded, but since the datasheet says p38 should be grounded when external oscillator is used so better off doing the ground.

    So if you have a Motorola labeled chip that is only working with a complete external oscillator (like sys 11) when p38 is OPEN, it is a Hitachi chip remarked as Moto.

    Not that makes it right, seems like some of these pinball vendors do not know any better about remark'd chips. I know boxes get reused a lot, but I received some generic pinball mechanical parts in a cleary phony STMicro 7805 box once. The registered trademark logo was printed upside down on the box and there was some bad English in the ESD warning.

    #4 3 days ago

    Do us all a favor and post clear pictures of these chips so we can see the plastic mold. It will help identify who made them and allow others to reference suspect cross brand remarked chips.

    #5 3 days ago

    Let me know if these are helpful. If they are not clear enough, I can take additional photos.

    6808-back (resized).jpg6808-front (resized).jpg
    #6 3 days ago

    For sure a remarked chip. Pretty confident that was originally a Hitachi brand chip (probably a HD6802P) remarked to Motorola. Hitachi bottom side imprints have letters on ones side and numbers on the other.

    Hitachi left Motorola right.
    20200915_143045 (resized).jpg

    Hitachi dip 40 chips are pretty consistent with tooling imprint marks. Motorola and STM had numerous plants with different tooling imprint markings.

    #7 3 days ago

    I agree -- here is another set. 1x Hitachi, 3x various Moto (top two 1990s, bottom one 1980s).

    Bots (resized).jpgTops (resized).jpg
    #8 2 days ago

    Thanks to everyone who chipped in on figuring this one out. Also I apologize for the cheap pun

    #9 2 days ago
    Quoted from oliviarium:

    Also I apologize for the cheap pun

    IC what you did there...

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