Hi folks,

I have a beat up old Surfer that I have been working on for the better part of a year. See the history of it, and me here;
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/my-first-em-surfer-newb-needs-help

I'm having an issue with the Ball Return Relay 'O', or possibly the Ball Return Switch. The game goes through the reset cycle fine. Bonus unit resets, score reels reset. However, when I place a ball in the outhole nothing happens.

- I have checked the continuity on the Ball Return Switch and it is making a good connection.
- If I manually actuate the 'O' relay the outhole kicker kicks whether there is a ball in the outhole or not.
- I've tightened the screws down on the 'O' relay and made sure the switches are making proper contact.
- I have the schematics, but this area is complicated and I could use some help narrowing down where to troubleshoot.

One thing I wanted to mention, as soon as the reset cycle completes I have power to the playfield solenoids. I find this odd because the ball needs to roll over the ball count switch before power should be activated to the PF, but because the ball never kicks into the shooter lane this switch should never be activated so I shouldn't have power (but I do).

HowardR Just found this old thread where you highlight the path in red on the schematics.
I always find these helpful so thank you!
https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/gottlieb-surf-champ-1#post-4751678

I'll check out the ball return path again;
029cd574086d138214104a788d463707ec8b7b2e (resized).png

Then I'll try looking at the K relay again. I actually did troubleshoot this entire path today but I got lost when tracing the BR-BLK wiring;
b2a0dbcf51e18bf1e134c7f468706dad6715ad1c (resized).png

I'll go through this list of switches to check from fredsmythson as well;

My O relay is not energizing.

I need to get a good set of alligator clips for jumping connections. I don't know how you guys manage to get the clips in without touching an adjoining switch base. Everything is sooo tight.

They look like this. The insulation is very stiff.
0000223_alligator-clip-adapters_300 (resized).jpeg

While Googling for this image I noticed there are quite a few with more malleable insulation. I'll have to get some newer ones.

HowardR when you say diagnose the circuit with alligator clips are you just jumping the switches on the relay? For example, on the BALL RETURN section I posted above am I just putting one clip on either side of the O switch? The O is normally open, so clips would just close the switch but I need to test the circuit with the O open. Could you help me out with an example?

edednedy I will try this first thing tonight. Thanks for the suggestion!

edednedy My zero position bonus unit should be open according to the schematics (see above K relay). Maybe I'm misunderstanding the terminology you are using?

Okay, so I managed to muck around and get this working.

I followed the OR-BLK wire path from my O relay to the switch on O. I stuck a slotted screwdriver in-between the switch contacts and gave it a little twist. No outhole kick. I traced the BRN-BLK wire from the other side of the O switch back to the Ax relay and repeated my slotted screwdriver twist. The outhold kicked.

I have lost count of how many times I've mucked around with my Ax but this was the issue. I removed the cotter pin and re-adjusted all the switches and gave them a bit of a sanding with some 400 grit. Replaced the Ax and hit the Replay Button. Perfect Reset Cycle. Ball kicked out into the shooter lane.

Thank you all for your help!