(Topic ID: 264861)

Surf Champ won't skip player 3!

By RetroRyan

12 days ago

Topic Stats

  • 21 posts
  • 5 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 10 days ago by jeffc
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider


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    There have been 6 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

    20200326_105050 (resized).jpg
    Surf Champ Coin Unit (resized).jpg
    pasted_image (resized).png
    20200324_161842 (resized).jpg
    Player Unit switches (resized).jpg
    pasted_image (resized).png

    #1 12 days ago

    So I have an old surf champ pinball that I have been working on and it goes through the reset cycle fine and starts a game. The issue that I am having however is that when I start a one player game it will play the ball and then it goes to player 3 and starts a ball. Once I play through that turn it will move on to ball 2 for player one, continue then on a ball 2 for player 3 then to Ball 3 for player one and then the game will end. If I change the game settings to five balls instead of three it will do the same thing all the way to ball 5.

    I have cleaned all of the stepper units and they're all moving freely and seem to be working properly. Does anyone know what other switches I should check out on here that might cause that problem?

    Thank you in advance for your help!

    #2 12 days ago

    The Add Player Unit stepup solenoid is controlled by the Coin Unit wiper disk and these switches on the Player Unit itself.

    For a switch to work 3 things are necessary:
    1) When open, there should be a small space between the contact points (duh)
    2) When closing, the long blade's contact point should push the short blade's contact point enough to move the short blade
    3) The contact points should be clean, which they usually will be if #2 is happening

    pasted_image (resized).png
    #3 12 days ago

    To elaborate on howardr's response the Player Unit determines among other things which player is up. When the ball drains on a 1 player game the Player Unit should take 4 steps to skip over players 2-4 and return back to player 1. Each of the four paths circled in his schematic is used to send one pulse to the Add Player Unit solenoid. The first pulse goes through the Motor 2C switch. The 2nd, 3rd and 4th pulses go through the P2G, P3G and P4G switches.

    If you always stop on player 3 that implies that the path through the P3G switch doesn't complete somehow. Either the P3G switch isn't closing reliably, or the path through the Coin Unit is open or there's some other issue that blocks the pulse from getting through that path. I'd start by checking the P3G switch which is mounted on the 3rd cam of the Player Unit, 7th switch up in the stack:
    Player Unit switches (resized).jpg


    #4 12 days ago

    P3G switch looks good. Attached is a pic with switch circled and in the "engaged" position. Contacts are clean and seems to be contact. Now on to coin unit it looks like!


    20200324_161842 (resized).jpg
    #5 12 days ago

    Coin unit is resetting at start of game and counting up when additional players are added. After 3 are added to make total of 4 it opens a switch on the unit, i assume to prevent waste of credits. What else is on there i should be looking for?

    Connections all seem good and I have sanded and cleaned all contacts with alcohol.

    Thanks again.


    #6 12 days ago

    Jumpered p3g switch for good measure and it did not solve the problem so that eliminates that as a potential issue.

    Is it possible that there is a switch on the add player relay that is not pulsing the third player? I would assume that those pulses would go all through the same switch on the add player relay but maybe that's not the case?

    #7 12 days ago

    Is it possible to jump the coin unit to the PG3 switch? Maybe that would be worth a shot?

    #8 12 days ago

    Yes. Look at howardr's schematic. You could jumper the white-blue wire to the white-brown wire to get around the Coin Unit for player 3.

    #9 12 days ago

    Good eye! Im still working on my schematic skills. I will try this and see if it works.

    #10 11 days ago

    @howardr and @MarkG jumping from switch 2C on score motor to switch PG3 solved the problem. So, the question is, what in this link is the issue? Is there a particular contact on the coin unit that I need to inspect more carefully? Are there any other switches between the score motor switch in the player unit switch that I need to inspect?

    Thanks in advance for your help I think we are getting close!!

    #11 11 days ago

    At this point you're going to have to dig in with a good light and a meter and figure out why you can't get those two wires to connect through the Coin Unit. It may be that a wire has broken loose somewhere or there's a cold solder joint or some other defect that won't be on the schematic.

    Try clipping your meter to those two wires and playing around with the Coin Unit to see if you can get the connection at all. Try advancing it, check the tension on the wipers, see if you can find the contact(s) that should be in the path, etc.

    Do you have the same problem on 2 player games? That might help narrow down on where to look.

    #12 11 days ago

    MarkG yes on a two-player game it will still stop on the third player. I did check yesterday but I'm going to have to be more thorough and see if I can find where that wire connects to the coin unit and which contacts it's energizing and then inspect the connection and the contacts very closely.

    I suppose that wire from the coin unit to the back box probably connects through a Jones plug somewhere. Maybe I'll try to hunt that down to and see if I can find something. I'll dig into it later today and report back. Thank you so much for your help!

    #13 11 days ago
    Quoted from RetroRyan:

    jumping from switch 2C on score motor to switch PG3 solved the problem

    Motor 2C switch isn't relevant.
    Inspect and diagnose this circuit with Alligator clip jumper wires

    pasted_image (resized).png
    #14 11 days ago

    Ok HowardR if I am reading this right I should put a jumper at switch on F relay and other end at switch on Z2 and work my way through the circuit one switch at a time correct?

    #15 11 days ago

    roughly yes... my guess is the player stack contact. Since the game resets, you need not worry about the reel switches

    #16 11 days ago
    Quoted from RetroRyan:

    jumping from switch 2C on score motor to switch PG3 solved the problem.

    Maybe I misunderstood what solved the problem. Jumping from one switch to another doesn't really tell us the whole story since you don't say what side of the switches you connected. If you connected the white-blue wire to the white-brown wire you effectively removed the Coin Unit from the circuit that should provide the pulse to move you past player 3. If that solved the problem it's likely because the red path through the Coin Unit or the jones plug is broken.
    Surf Champ Coin Unit (resized).jpg
    If you put the jumper somewhere else this may not apply.

    #17 11 days ago

    Yep MarkG that is the path I closed with jumper wires so I will check the Jones plug and the coin unit.

    #18 10 days ago

    Also MarkG, is there a schematic of the coin unit with specifics? I want to try to jumper coin unit to PG3 switch and see if I can narrow down the specific connection that is bad. Also want to locate correct wire on jones plug, any easy way to do this?

    Thanks again!

    #19 10 days ago

    So I'm fairly certain I found the sneaky little problem after tracing the wht-blu and wht-brn wires through the entire machine... going to splice in new wire shortly and report results!!

    20200326_105050 (resized).jpg
    #20 10 days ago

    Spliced in some wire to reestablish connection amd BOOM! Works like a charm! Thanks HowardR and MarkG for your persistent help with this one! It was a challenge!!!

    #21 10 days ago

    You have just leveled-up. Congrats.

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