Hi. do you have schematics?
also, does that relay stay energized if you unplug the power?

Hi Hammond.
chk these...ax relay, motor 1B, relays D,E,F?, C, and look close at H, all these are in front of the U relay.
I can't see everything, very busy circuit there

Hi Hammond2
welcome to pinside. Your U-First-Ball-Relay acts strange. Yes, when You toggle-on the pin the U-Relay must pull-in and stays pulling. When You start a game the U-Relay must let go. Some more stuff is happening - the ball is kicked out as "Player-1-Ball-1". This situation is shown on the bottom of the JPG - the "Coil on U-Relay" has NO connection - it can NOT pull. At this time the R-Hold-Relay MUST pull, the H-Tilt-Hold-Relay MUST pull. Question: Do these two relays steady pull at this time in Your pin ?

Your U-Relay does faulty pull at this time - it may have a fault "along green wiring" and / or "along red wiring". When troubleshooting I sometimes sneak-in a fault into the pin --- and this "sneaked-in fault" gives me information to "original problem".
Toggle-off the pin - the U-Relay does not pull. A short wire runs from "Coil on U-Relay" to "Switch mounted on the relay" This is the switch I marked in the JPG with a "star". Look at the switch - all good (not only contact points - also where the wires are soldered-on) ? Sneak-in a stripe of paper in-between the contact-points --- the switch can move mechanically but the stripe of paper hinders "electrical contact". Toggle-on the pin - the U-Relay should pull-in and stay pulling - AAA means Yes, BBB means No.
Then start a new game - CCC: The U-Relay let go --- or --- DDD: The U-Relay stays pulling. I am not interested in OTHER (maybe strange) behavior of the pin.

I hope for "You have AAA and CCC". If You have BBB: A fault in green wiring", If You have "AAA and DDD": A fault in red wiring --- what do You have ? (After the test You may take-out the sneaked-in stripe of paper --- we have sneaked-in a fault (stripe of paper) and the pin has given a result.) Greetings Rolf

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Hi Hammond2
great - the "sneaked-in stripe of paper" test showed: post-7, JPG on the bottom: We do NOT have a fault on "green wiring".

So when You start a new game WITHOUT the stripe of paper: The "green wiring is the same (paper or not paper) - the green wiring is good --- IF (if) You start a new game and the U-Relay does faulty pull and pull: The fault (maybe one of the faults) must be in the "red wiring" - maybe the "Switch on U-Relay" (can You guarantee ? "Switch is open when the relay is not pulling" ?) - maybe the "Switch on AX-Relay***" - maybe the "Score-Motor-Switch-1B***".

Check the switch in question "Switch on AX-Relay***" - in Your schematics (also shown in post-4) You see "one wire on this switch has color-GR-WH Green-White" - to find the color of the other wire on that switch: Go in Your schematics right - a bit up then right - down, right, down - do You see "color RED-WHITE" mentioned on schematics-I-22 (?) - look for this switch with these wire-colors - the Switch on AX-Relay - have the pin toggled-off and investigate - question: Does this switch truely close ? DOES IT TRUELY OPEN ? (I hope for "This switch on AX-Relay NEVER opens).

"Switch SCM-1B***" has the SAME wire-colors - it is hard to get at - this switch MUST open when actuated.

We MUST have at the end of the Start-up: R-Relay steady pulling, H-Relay steady pulling, U-Relay NOT pulling. Greetings Rolf

Hi Hammond2
by now we do not really know "DOES the AX-Relay functions correct ?". It is an "un-loved" Interlock-Type of relay. Here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index.htm then here http://www.pinrepair.com/em/index3.htm#axrelayvideo "Clay" made an excellent video - it is about ADJUSTING such an AX-Relay. Want to "just look at the video" ?

I also have an Surf Champ - my AX-Relay functions correct --- when it is mounted - or when I hold it in the position "same as beeing mounted". It does NOT functions correct when I take it out and turn it 90 degrees and lay it on the bottom panel. I do NOT work on my AX-Relay as its functions correct when mounted. I very much dislike "working on such AX-Relays" - I very much dislike "working on Score-Motor-Switches". Thats the reason I first look all other places hoping "fault is on other place" --- when I am 100% sure: Fault IS on AX-Relay / Score-Motor-Switch --- well, I then work on them. Greetings Rolf

Hi Hammond2
something "general": When troubleshooting we often need the Score-Motor to make a turn (means a turn of 120 degrees, a third of a revolution). We can grab the "turntable" on the Score-Motor and gently turn a bit by hand in the direction "normal turning" - the Score-Motor is nice and makes the turn. (((We also could establish "Jumper-Wire with an mounted doorbell-pushbutton as shown in the JPG (drawn in color red).

You made the test "sneaked-in stripe of paper in switch on U-Relay". Much alike is another such test --- "stripe of paper sneaked-in in Switch on AX-Relay".

IF (if, if) You have found the Switch on AX-Relay (by the color of wires) and IF (if, if) You can guarantee: NO DROP of solder on the side where the wires are soldered-on / NO BENT short stud, solder-lug on switchblade --- means: When You sneak-in a stripe of paper into that switch THEN the switch IS OPEN: You can do a test.

Toggle-off the pin - sneak-in a stripe of paper in between the contact-points on Switch on AX-Relay. Toggle-on - the U-Relay pulls-in and stays pulling. You then start a game - the Motor MUST turn (otherwise YOU must make the motor do a turn) --- EEE: U-Relay stays pulling --- or --- FFF: U-Relay quits pulling.

When You have "EEE": The Score-Motor-Switch-1B is faulty - it never opens.
When You have "FFF": The Switch on AX-Relay is "no good" means when the AX-Relay does actuate (does it ever actuate ?) - when it does actuate: The switch does NOT truely open. Greetings Rolf

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Hi Hammond2
great - You could fix the fault. Yes, working on Score-Motor-Switches / AX-Interlock-Type-Relay-Switches is a drag ...

IF (if, if) SCM-1B was faulty always closed: The U-Relay does not let go. You did some adjustment - You had a second problem (You immediately could fix) - we do not KNOW --- we can guess and argue - lets be thankful "You could fix the fault".

Look at the JPG - a schematics is an abstract - drawn beautyful --- the reality in the pin is other. Yes of course: When we see a wire running from A to B (no switch in the connecting wire) - we may see a looooong connecting wire in the schematics: THEN there is a connection in the pin from A to B - but maybe just a short Jumper (see bottom of the JPG).

I like my Surf Champ - still: Far Out is my Number-1 pin. I am used to make some 8 to 15 bonus each ball on Far Out. I was frustrated about "most of the balls on Surf Champ end with 1 to 6 Bonus". So I made a little hack - I made the Surf Champ act like Far Out - See here: http://www.ipdb.org/showpic.pl?id=823&picno=52842 a "LIT Inlane" rewards a bonus.
To keep it simple I made the Inlanes on my Surf Champ "to reward me one bonus": EVERY time the Ball rolls through an Inline ...

If Your problem comes back: Write --- greetings Rolf

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