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(Topic ID: 235175)

Surf Champ - Ten point relay stuck on, but won't score points


By ChipS

1 year ago



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  • 10 posts
  • 4 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by ChipS
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Drop Target Switch02 (resized).jpg
Drop Target Switch01 (resized).jpg

#1 1 year ago

My Surf Champ is now operational, but none of the playfield objects (slingshots, spinner) which are supposed to score 10 points, will score at all. (The slingshots work, they just won't score.)

When I start a game, I can hear a buzzing coming from the backbox. It appears to be coming from one of the player 1 score reels. I recently had someone else power up and start a game and noticed that the N relay (the 10 point relay) in the backbox immediately energizes. The 10 point score reel will move one or two positions, with an accompanying chime, and then stops. It will not score 10 points when anything is hit.

I decided to try it in two player mode, and when the first player's ball drains, and scoring switches to the second player, the player 1 score stops buzzing and the player 2 score reel then begins buzzing. When the ball drains and scoring switches back to player 1, so does the buzzing.

The game is new to me, and I have not cleaned the score reel switches. Could that be the source of the buzzing? Or is the energized N relay causing the score reel to vibrate? While the N relay stays energized when the game is playing, the coil does not appear burned and seems to have the proper resistance (15 ohms).

#2 1 year ago

Most likely a playfield switch is stuck closed, especially the ones behind the rubber bands. Unplug the playfield to verify that.

#3 1 year ago

HowardR - you were absolutely correct! I took all the plastics off, inspected every switch. I assumed it was one of the 10 point switches so I did those first. Nope - every one seemed fine.

Last one I inspected was the drop targets. Sure enough, the switch behind the rubber was out of adjustment - constantly closed. I adjusted it to make it NO, turned the game back on, started a game. No more buzzing out of the backbox, and now everything that is supposed to score 10 points, scores 10 points!

Thank you for the help! Greatly appreciated!

Drop Target Switch01 (resized).jpgDrop Target Switch02 (resized).jpg
#4 1 year ago

I am curious about a couple of things:

1. Why did the stuck switch on the drop targets, which count 500 points, stop all of the 10 point switches from scoring?

2. And why did that stuck switch energize the N (10 point) relay?

3. Why did all of that cause the vibration in the score reel?

Just trying to understand what exactly went wrong. Might help me understand other issues down the road.

Thanks!

#5 1 year ago

That switch that you showed in the photo is not one of the scoring switches for the drop targets themselves. The drop target scoring switches are located on the part of the target bank that is located underneath the playfield. The switch shown is merely a switch that was designed to score 10 points if the ball strikes the white rebound rubber when some or all of the targets are down.

Thus, the fact that this switch was closed all the time, resulted in continuous power being applied to the 10-pt relay in the backbox (the N relay) and it probably remained pulled in.

With the 10-pt relay continuously energized, the solenoid on the 10-pt score reel should have been continuously pulling in the plunger and thus, the score reel was incapable of advancing any further (until the plunger released and permitted the ratchet mechanism on the score reel to reset).

Lee

#6 1 year ago
Quoted from Runbikeskilee:

That switch that you showed in the photo is not one of the scoring switches for the drop targets themselves. The drop target scoring switches are located on the part of the target bank that is located underneath the playfield. The switch shown is merely a switch that was designed to score 10 points if the ball strikes the white rebound rubber when some or all of the targets are down.
Thus, the fact that this switch was closed all the time, resulted in continuous power being applied to the 10-pt relay in the backbox (the N relay) and it probably remained pulled in.
With the 10-pt relay continuously energized, the solenoid on the 10-pt score reel should have been continuously pulling in the plunger and thus, the score reel was incapable of advancing any further (until the plunger released and permitted the ratchet mechanism on the score reel to reset).
Lee

Correct answer, people looking for answer, myself included thank people like for your Knowledge, Time and Help

#7 1 year ago

Thank you so much for clarifying that, Runbikeskilee!! It now makes perfect sense, even to a newbie like me!

I'm curious: why didn't the N relay (10 point relay) coil burn up - I played for a couple minutes before turning the game off. Guess it wasn't enough time for it to burn?

#8 1 year ago

I would bet the coil of the N relay got mildly hot.

That relay coil (A-9375) only has to move a small plastic yoke with 4 thin metal switchblades and thus, is not required to deliver a lot of physical force. The A-9375 has a (relatively high) resistance of approximately 15 ohms, which limits the current through the windings to about 1.6 amps, which is enough to heat up a small gauge wire if left applied for a period of time, but isn't really a short-term threat to burn up the wiring.

Lee

#9 1 year ago
Quoted from ChipS:

I am curious about a couple of things:
3. Why did all of that cause the vibration in the score reel?
Thanks!

My post didn't quite go far enough to explain #3.

When the N relay is energized, there is a NO switch on N that should close and lock in power to the N relay until the score reel moves a full step, and then an NC End-of-Stroke (EOS) switch on the ten's score reel opens, which is designed to cut power to the N relay. Since the N relay was continuously powered on by the misadjusted switch behind the rebound rubber, the score reel EOS switch then opens just far enough to try and cut power to the N relay, but power is immediately reapplied from the misadjusted switch. That "mechanism" likely caused any vibration you may have witnessed. The score reel plunger was trying to relax and let the ratchet reset, but could never get there, because as soon as the plunger started to release, the EOS switch would close again and power would be reapplied through the N relay.

NC = Normally Closed; NO = Normally Open
Lee

#10 1 year ago

Great explanation! Thanks so much for enlightening a newbie!

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