I don't know if this behavior is normal for Gottlieb EMs -- it's the only GTB machine I own with a spinner, so I have nothing to compare it to. My '75 Bally spinner mech works great and scores with every contact no matter how fast it spins. I checked and cleaned the spinner switch contact, linkage & weight -- all in great shape and work fine at slow speed, but it seems like the machine is incapable of handling high speed scoring for this feature. I also cleaned, gapped and checked the 2 sets of "C" relay contacts that control scoring and bonus lights. I also removed and serviced the related 00-99 stepper unit (FS) which works fine and rotates the bonus lights during play as it should. None of these measures has had any effect. This happens on all four player modes.

To currieddog and HowardR's points, I serviced the contacts and checked operation of both the 6B and 10-point ("N") relays. No change to the behavior. My crummy video shows what HowardR asked about. This is the N relay in action -- fast spins, then single spins, then fast spins. It works, but the missing chime tones give away the high speed, no-scoring phenom.

I'm open to all suggestions, especially counter-intuitive ones. I'll experiment with gaps and spring tension on the N relay. I was hoping someone would chime in if their SC/Surfer spinner behaves like this or not (or on any other comparably-equipped Gottlieb.) It could confirm or eliminate whether it's endemic to this species.

Thanks for your suggestion. I tested that theory by tapping several playfield 10-point switches very rapidly, and they spun equality fast without missing a beat. The problem has to be in the spinner scoring circuit that is not delivering the quality of pulse that the score reels need to do their job.

Hello Rolf! Greetings to you, too. Thanks for the note. I forgot you had a Surf Champ. How about that! Gottlieb must have used 1000 meters of wire for just that one circuit! (Current can only travel at 186,000 miles per second.)

Rolf, I will not give up completely. If I or someone ever finds a remedy, you won't be singin' the blues any longer.

Rolf: To answer your question in post #15 - the score reel resetting works great at high speed on my Surf Champ, as do all other 10-point scoring functions except for that %#& spinner (which I noted in my post #11). Fast and crisp. I am of the firm belief that this "lousy design" can be redesigned with a hack. We'd give it a name, like the "Rolf Hack" or whoever comes up with the best design. I am not the guy to do it. But I'm confident we have more than enough collective experience and grey matter on this EM Tech forum to do it. I'll even offer up my Surf Champ as the beta test guinea pig.

Thanks edednedy and @rolf. I will be testing both of your suggestions today on my surfing guinea pig. Will post results.

Test results:

Jumper wire from "N" to "C" coils as depicted in edednedy's drawing did not work. As soon as I hit the first 10-pt PF switch, I heard one chime, no score was awarded, and no other switches or spinner worked at all -- everything froze with a hum.

"N" coil hold switch disabled with paper: machine-gunned PF switches kept pace nicely and awarded 10 points with every hit - never missed a score. This is identical to what it did before the paper was inserted. So, no change. Then the high-speed spinner test -- barely turns the 10-point score reel -- slummin' -- but does award score at very slow turns. No change whatsoever. I found this very odd.

I then went back to edednedy's suggestion in post #8 by widening the gaps of the 2 high current "N" switches, then played with several different coil springs. No change.

The guinea pig survived, but we're out of ideas.

Have not, but will do. I think Rolf is right, tho. This is a design flaw if other GTB EMs are behaving the same way. If you have the schematic, take another look at that circuit. It only happens with the spinner scoring. Rolf's SC does exactly the same thing. There has to be a way to disable and reconfigure that function's circuit, but I can't see it. Maybe add a new stack switch or rebuild a relay. I had an Aladdin's Castle with a stock spinner that was a huge part of the fun because it worked so great. If that Bally could do it... well, you get the idea. I'll name it the "Currieddog Patch". You'll go down in pinball history.

To your 1st point @frenchymark, I ran a 100-point high-speed spinner scoring test: that function is also sluggish, but not as bad as the 10-point spinner scoring. The "N" relay was not involved or activated.

To your 2nd point, yes I'm sure. As I've said several times in my posts, the 10-point scoring behaves nicely for all other 10-point switches.

Which leads me to believe there could be an inherent issue with the design of the spinner/switch mechanism itself. I'll try experimenting further with that. Maybe I should try replacing it with a Bally spinner! Seriously.

@D-Gottlieb: Might help if you provide a photo/video of your Top Score spinner/switch in action beneath the PF? Also, how is that spinner's circuit wired that's different from SC and Surfer?

Rolf: I’m a bit confused by your post #35. What are you proposing specifically?

Gentlemen, I present to you my latest GTB Surf Champ spinner redesign. Tests show spins on both 10-point and 100-point modes. As Steve Young would say, "Put your damn schematic away; this is a mechanical problem!"

Will post pic of solution shortly. Enjoy.

The spinner's plunger and switch had to be the culprit of the "lousy design". To test that theory, I eliminated them by clipping alligator leads to the switch's two solder tabs and then machine-gunned the hell out of wire ends. That confirmed it.

There are actually two mechanical issues that really do show poor design, both of which needed to be addressed:

1. the factory plunger only applies force to the switch blade in one direction: down. The plunger' shaft also interferes with switch movement as it scrapes against the leaf's hole edges. Whenever I tried to adjust the moving switch leaf for greater upward force, it caused the spinner to lay flat and not work. There was no happy medium. So I removed the old wire & weight and formed a new plunger with loops at both ends, one of which hooks permanently into the hole at the end the switch leaf. (I know some Bally designs do it this way, which is probably why they work so well.) That allowed me to bend the switch leaf as far as needed to balance much stronger up and down forces that offered a wider contact gap. I removed the entire assembly to do this. The picture shows the side by side comparison of the plungers (factory on right).

2. the switch blade contacts need to be gapped at least 1/8" - 3/16" apart. The plunger makes such deep sweeps up and down that a normal gap will not allow enough clearance and dwell time, particularly at high speed cycles.

If someone is not happy with the scoring of their Gottlieb spinner, this is a solution. It takes patience to adjust the tension and get it right. But it works.

SC new spinner pushrod (resized).JPG

Point taken, and that's what tried first and got nowhere. In fact, after I installed the mod and ran a test, there was no change -- until I really started messing with bending and gapping. The new mod allowed me to get a gap wide enough and a dwell long enough so that the spinner would stay vertical when idle and score correctly when called on, which was impossible with the factory set up. The physics is tough to explain in writing, and the video can't show what really happens new vs old. Like I said, Bally got the push-pull concept right.

Hehehe. Love it!

Thanks!

Oftentimes design decisions are made based on production efficiencies. This Gottlieb design is a "slip-in" -- easier to install than the Bally or my version.