(Topic ID: 244683)

Surf Champ rollover no scoring/sound issue

By Blenderhead

4 years ago


Topic Heartbeat

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  • 17 posts
  • 6 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 4 years ago by hbpinball
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Surf Champ A relay (resized).jpg
0Surf-Champ-ipdb-image-12-Work-01 (resized).jpg
Surf Champ rollovers (resized).jpg
#1 4 years ago

Hi EM people,

Can anyone give some advice on which relay may be mis-adjusted based on the issue described in the subject line? I recently bought this game and this seems to be the last issue to fix, just stuck at the moment...any pointers appreciated!

#2 4 years ago

Can you elaborate? There are 11 rollovers in this game, plus another 5 rollover buttons. It seems unlikely that none of them work unless lots of other stuff isn't working either. Do any of the rollovers work?
Surf Champ rollovers (resized).jpgSurf Champ rollovers (resized).jpg
Either the D or E relay should fire if a rollover switch closes. Does that happen? If not check the Score Motor switches on the right side.

/Mark

#3 4 years ago

Yes, I sure can elaborate. I am referring to the (5) rollovers in the center of the playfield. My brother is working on the game and kinda got stuck

#4 4 years ago

after activating the (5) rollovers, it DOES activate the side lanes and center spinner, just doesn't score when rolling over or activate the chime unit.

#5 4 years ago
Quoted from Blenderhead:

after activating the (5) rollovers, it DOES activate the side lanes and center spinner, just doesn't score when rolling over or activate the chime unit.

Did you check the Jones plugs?

#6 4 years ago

Hi Blenderhead
start a game, launch the first ball, make some points, take the ball out, lift the playfield. See the JPG - manually close one of the Rollover-Switches (encircled blue) ---
Question: Does the A-Series-Relay (encircled orange) actuate ?
If "YES": The problem is in the only Switch on the A-Relay and / or its wiring to the M-100-Points-Relay.
If "No": The problem is in the wiring to actuate the A-Relay through (mounted in the Sequence Bank) 1B-, 2B-, 3B-, 4B-, 5B-Relay. Wear rubber gloves (Safety Reasons) - manually press and let go the armature on the A-Relay - do You get the 100 Points ? Greetings Rolf

0Surf-Champ-ipdb-image-12-Work-01 (resized).jpg0Surf-Champ-ipdb-image-12-Work-01 (resized).jpg
#7 4 years ago

If you aren't activating the scoring or chimes then I'd look at the specific switches under each rollover. Corrosion could cause it to not register or the gap is too large.

There should be two switches at each position. One trips the specific relay to register it has been hit and light up the respective insert at the kickout hole. The other switch will trip the score relay which will cause the chime to tone.

#8 4 years ago

Thanks guys, I will check after work and report back on this thread

1 week later
#9 4 years ago

Hi, everything works except the "a" relay never energizes. Looking at the drawing, it shows the + side of the "a" relay hooked up to the - side of the 5 rollover relays. There is no reading on my meter from the black wire to the - side of any relay weather it is energized or not. I do read 29 volts on the + side of any relay if it is energized. Please explain how the "a" relay gets energized when the - side is hooked up to the black wire and the + lug is going to the - side of the 5 rollover relays.

#10 4 years ago

These are ungrounded AC circuits so there isn't really a positive or negative side of anything. And I don't follow the comment about no reading on your meter. What is it you're trying to measure?

As far as the A relay is concerned, it should fire whenever any of the other relays in series with it fires (1B, 2B, 3B, 4B or 5B). Assuming the 1B,...,5B relays can fire that indicates that the A relay isn't open (ie. it doesn't have a broken wire in one of the turns). What happens sometimes though is that these relay coils are replaced with the wrong coil of the same size. The 1B,...,4B relays should all have A-1119 coils and the A relay should have an A-9746 coil.

#11 4 years ago

I'm trying to get blenderheads surf champ working. I know that the coils use ac voltage. By - side of the coil i mean the black wire side. By + side of the coil i mean the switched RED-WH wire. By reading i mean setting the meter to ac volts, attach one wire from the meter to the black wire and the other wire from the meter to the RED-WH wire. Also I mean one wire from the meter to the black wire and the other meter wire to the + side of an energized coil reads 29 volts. When i meter the black wire to the - side of an energized coil it reads 0 volts. When my brother purchased the machine a month ago, the "A" relay didn't work. I noticed that the coil on the "A" relay was not soldered by the factory. Then i saw that the coil in the "A" relay had the wrong #. I put a new coil with the proper # and still the "A" relay has never fired since we have owned it. It might be a bad new coil, but i doubt it. I'll do a few more test later when it's daytime.

#12 4 years ago

Hmm, if I've understood all these observations correctly:
- the 1B, 2B, 3B and 4B relays can all fire
- the A relay never fires
- there's no voltage across the A relay coil when 1B-4B fire
- there are 29 volts across 1B-4B relay coils when they fire
- the A relay coil was disconnected
then I wonder if someone modified the circuit. When this circuit is working you should see A fire any time 1B-4B fire, and there should be nearly equal voltages across A and whichever one of the 1B-4B relay coils has fired. The A relay coil should have a little less than half the voltage and the 1B-4B relay coil should have a little more than half.

Try shutting off the power and measuring the resistance between the black wire on the A relay coil solder lug and the red wire on one of the 1B-4B relay coil solder lugs. You should measure about 1.8 ohms more or less which is the resistance of the A-9746 coil. If you measure much less than an ohm it's possible that someone jumpered between the red wire and the black wire, cutting the A relay coil out of the circuit.

#13 4 years ago

I cut the red wire off the "A" relay The"A" relay shows 1.3 ohms. The meter shows 0 ohms from the "A" relay red wire the the - side of the five rollover coils. With red wire cut off the "A" relay coil, I fired it with a jumper wire from the 24 volt fuse. If i try to fire the "A" relay coil with a jumper wire with both of its wires attached, it blows the 24 volt fuse.

#14 4 years ago

Even with the red wire disconnected from the "A" relay coil, the 5 rollover coils still work fine. everything works except the "A" relay coil when the red wire to that coil is connected or not.

#15 4 years ago

Based on your measurements I'm pretty sure your game has been modified. At some point the A relay coil was replaced with the wrong coil (as you found) which prevented not only the A but the 1B-4B coils from working to. Rather than putting the right coil in the A relay, someone just shorted it out and moved on. Here's what I think you have, with the extra wire shown in red:
Surf Champ A relay (resized).jpgSurf Champ A relay (resized).jpg
I think it would explain your measurements and the fact that you blew a fuse when you tried to fire the A relay.

Check the red wire on the A and 1B-4B relay coils. Somewhere I bet there's an extra wire soldered on that connects the red wire to the black wire (shown in red in the schematic above). If you find it, remove it and resolder the red wire to the A relay coil.

#16 4 years ago

MarkG is the answer man. I found a jumper wire connecting the black wire linking the rollover switches to the black wire linking the coils located next to them. I cut the added jumper wire and cut the voltage in half to the rollover coils by adding the proper "A" relay coil to the circuit. Now the machine works as new! Machine to be in a public location soon near pch and main in hb, 92647. MarkG, Thank You.

3 months later
#17 4 years ago

The reason for all the problems was recently discovered. the plate that the coil pulls in became magnetic. it would hold even with the power off. it worked for a month after i changed the coil, but then malfunctioned. i put a piece of electrical tape on the plate and it no longer sticks. the machine is working great and was sold to Australia.

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