Surf Champ
Gottlieb, 1976I was looking at the bracket that Steve posted with the blue arrow pointing to it (post 33), from where I'm sitting it looks like one from a Williams (they are flat), not a Gottlieb which have a bend in them to make them stronger (post 34, middle pic from pinhead52).
Steve
Quoted from blownfuse:Steve, when you start troubleshooting it, if you get stuck and need help, let me know and I'll drop in for a visit. I can fix those EM's easily, it's what I was brought up on. I also have a lot of extra EM parts over here.
Steve
Thanks so much Steve! I have heard legend that with jumpers and a few feet of wire you can fix any EM under five minutes! You are a good guy and I will let you know if I need any assistance in person or parts.
Quoted from MikeO:There you go. Someone mildly local stepping up if needed. I have several of the u brackets you talk about, just that I'm halfway across the country. But PBR should have it.
Very local, less than an hour and the town I grew up in!
Quoted from blownfuse:I was looking at the bracket that Steve posted with the blue arrow pointing to it (post 33), from where I'm sitting it looks like one from a Williams (they are flat), not a Gottlieb which have a bend in them to make them stronger (post 34, middle pic from pinhead52).
Steve
Wait, so is my U Bracket supposed to be bent where I circled in post 33.
One question about cleaning siderails. Do you just pry them off? Sems like s lot of potential for damage.
The nails holding the rails on are a twist type, they are almost like a screw and very difficult to remove. It can be done but you have to take your time and be able to grab the head of the nail, pull and rotate your wrist as you remove it.
Steve
Quoted from practicalsteve:One question about cleaning siderails. Do you just pry them off? Sems like s lot of potential for damage.
It looks normal to me, I was talking about the part that has the blue arrow pointing at it. I have a lot of those here, you can pick out what you want to use.
Steve
Quoted from practicalsteve:Wait, so is my U Bracket supposed to be bent where I circled in post 33.
Quoted from blownfuse:The nails holding the rails on are a twist type, they are almost like a screw and very difficult to remove. It can be done but you have to take your time and be able to grab the head of the nail, pull and rotate your wrist as you remove it.
Steve
Yikes! How would you clean them then? I just got a canister of barkeepers friend which did great on the legs. Should I just tape off where they meet the cabinet?
LOL, yup, it doesn't really take long to make an EM work if it's complete.
Steve
Quoted from practicalsteve:Thanks so much Steve! I have heard legend that with jumpers and a few feet of wire you can fix any EM under five minutes! You are a good guy and I will let you know if I need any assistance in person or parts.
Very local, less than an hour and the town I grew up in!
Quoted from blownfuse:It looks normal to me, I was talking about the part that has the blue arrow pointing at it. I have a lot of those here, you can pick out what you want to use.
Steve
Then I will put more effort into getting that stuff out of the melted coil, haven't really tried yet. Finally borrowed a dolly and got the game all in the same room today.
I wouldn't bother removing the rails unless you plan to repaint the cabinet. They will polish up real nice in place, you just have to be careful.
Steve
Quoted from practicalsteve:Yikes! How would you clean them then? I just got a canister of barkeepers friend which did great on the legs. Should I just tape off where they meet the cabinet?
I've used a large punch to break them loose, but why bother, I have a lot of that stuff that isn't burned up looking.
Steve
Quoted from practicalsteve:Then I will put more effort into getting that stuff out of the melted coil, haven't really tried yet. Finally borrowed a dolly and got the game all in the same room today.
Quoted from practicalsteve:Seeing how much this stuff costs to replace on PBR it seems like the easier way to go. Except that I didn't see the U metal bracket in the pop bumper section.
I'd try and salvage what you can...bakelite probably toasted, but other stuff looks salvageable. stuff adds up quick...
following for sure - great game.
Quoted from blownfuse:I wouldn't bother removing the rails unless you plan to repaint the cabinet. They will polish up real nice in place, you just have to be careful.
Steve
Sounds good, I usually like the path or least resitance, I will just have to be careful.
Quoted from blownfuse:I've used a large punch to break them loose, but why bother, I have a lot of that stuff that isn't burned up looking.
Steve
Ok, sounds like I will be coming over to your house to go shopping before I place my order at PBR. 
Quoted from Robotoes:I'd try and salvage what you can...bakelite probably toasted, but other stuff looks salvageable. stuff adds up quick...
following for sure - great game.
Good advice, but Steve is practically twisting my arm to come over and raid his stuff at this point. 
Yeah, stuff adds up quick, but seeing how I am only in $150 I feel like I have a lot of room to spend where I can to get thsi game in nice shape.
Quoted from practicalsteve:Yikes! How would you clean them then? I just got a canister of barkeepers friend which did great on the legs. Should I just tape off where they meet the cabinet?
if not taking them off, i'd tape off the cabinet REAL well and use a green scotchbrite pad to regrain them... if damage is "deep", you might need to use something more aggressive at first...
but i'd take them off... blownfuse has a real good point (and he is FAR more experienced than i) you don't have to take them off to do it, but i find it a lot easier to regrain them if i have them off lying in front of me... i made a jig out of a piece of 1x6 to hold the rail in place while sanding... ymmv...
Quoted from blownfuse:I wouldn't bother removing the rails unless you plan to repaint the cabinet. They will polish up real nice in place, you just have to be careful.
Yeah, if you are leaving the cabinet as is, just hit the rails with some mothers mag polish...not really any point in having pristine rails if the cabinet is scraped up. You never see the sides anyway
Quoted from ccotenj:if not taking them off, i'd tape off the cabinet REAL well and use a green scotchbrite pad to regrain them... if damage is "deep", you might need to use something more aggressive at first...
but i'd take them off... blownfuse has a real good point (and he is FAR more experienced than i) you don't have to take them off to do it, but i find it a lot easier to regrain them if i have them off lying in front of me... i made a jig out of a piece of 1x6 to hold the rail in place while sanding... ymmv...
Quoted from Wickerman2:Yeah, if you are leaving the cabinet as is, just hit the rails with some mothers mag polish...not really any point in having pristine rails if the cabinet is scraped up. You never see the sides anyway
I ended up just using a rough kitchen sponge and "barkeepers friend" did a nice enough job for the level I was going for, meant to take pics but it got late. Will post some tonight.
So after a minor fiasco on Sunday I got all the metal cleaned up on the cabinet to the degree I wanted. I had a gallon of evaporust I was eager to use on the legs. Went to the hardware store and bought a PVC pipe, female connect, and a male plug to try it out. Well, the plug that screwed into the female connector was not leak proof and after getting evaporust everywhere and loosing a half gallon I decide to screw that and just try some bar keepers friend instead. I was really happy with the results, and it was pretty quick and did a nice job for the level I was going for. I used it carefully on the side rails and coin door as well. Happy with the results. First pic is a before one of the legs.
image-704.jpg
image-827.jpg
image-681.jpgAlso I tossed the flipper buttons in the ultrasonic cleaner, first time using one, it's a great tool for cleaning. Interested to see how the star posts do.
Question: would putting the drop targets in be a bad idea? Could I potentially clean off the paint?
Quoted from practicalsteve:Also I tossed the flipper buttons in the ultrasonic cleaner, first time using one, it's a great tool for cleaning. Interested to see how the star posts do.
Question: would putting the drop targets in be a bad idea? Could I potentially clean off the paint?
star posts will clean up nice in the ultrasonic... it IS a great tool, everyone who shops a pinball machine should have one...
NO!!!! nothing hot stamped or inked in the ultrasonic... it will come off... i learned this the hard way... 
Quoted from ccotenj:NO!!!! nothing hot stamped or inked in the ultrasonic... it will come off... i learned this the hard way...
I figured, that's why I asked first, thanks for the cautionary tale. Any recommendations on what to use to clean them?
Wow!
Great find... I have a working example at home, not looking as nice as this one, but if you need me to check some things out for you, feel free to ask.
I repainted my cab and I did my own screens but messed up when spray painting... the screen wouldn't stick so good to the cab and the lines came out wrinkly. I'll probably try to fix it somewhere down the line.
Quoted from PhilGreg:I repainted my cab and I did my own screens but messed up when spray painting... the screen wouldn't stick so good to the cab and the lines came out wrinkly. I'll probably try to fix it somewhere down the line.
Looks pretty good to me! Thanks for the offer of help, will take you up on it if needed.
Quoted from practicalsteve:I figured, that's why I asked first, thanks for the cautionary tale. Any recommendations on what to use to clean them?
yea, i have 3 perfectly white pop bumper bodies sitting here...
dirtflipper gave me a real good tip on cleaning score reels, and i have tried it on other inked things with success... use goop... the version with no abrasives in it... gop it on there good, and gently swirl it around with a soft toothbrush... rinse with cold water...
Quoted from ccotenj:yea, i have 3 perfectly white pop bumper bodies sitting here...
dirtflipper gave me a real good tip on cleaning score reels, and i have tried it on other inked things with success... use goop... the version with no abrasives in it... gop it on there good, and gently swirl it around with a soft toothbrush... rinse with cold water...
sorry about your loss! Thanks for the tip, will have to find some goop!
Quoted from practicalsteve:sorry about your loss! Thanks for the tip, will have to find some goop!
sometimes, parts gotta die in order for me to satisfy my curiosity...
no problem... it works great on many things that you want to be careful with...
you can use "gojo" as well, again just make sure you get the "non abrasive" flavor...
I bet someone knows offhand what coil I need for the pop bumper... anyone have that stored in their memory?
I prefer the A-1496 (2.95 ohms) in EM's because of them not being designed "high octane". A-4893 is 2.1 ohms and more likely to beat up any playfield art that isn't protected. It's a matter of choice, both are listed as being used for pop bumpers. I think as far as play goes, the A-1496 won't be noticed as being a little weaker.
Steve
Thanks to both of you! How did I know that Steve would be all over this?
Putting together my order for PBR, damn it adds up quick! Still have more to go over before I place it, and I know Steve said he may have parts I could raid, so I will let you know before I do. Of course I will fully compensate you for anything you may have that I need.
Quoted from blownfuse:LOL, just come by this weekend and get what you need, I have a lot of that stuff sitting here in boxes, probably have the coils too.
Steve
I will let you know, want to know exactly what I need, and may not be able to sneak away. Are you around any weekdays? I'm off at 1:30 everyday and can be in your area by 2:00pm.
Quoted from blownfuse:LOL, just come by this weekend and get what you need, I have a lot of that stuff sitting here in boxes, probably have the coils too.
Steve
man i need to move to cali...
Quoted from MikeO:Just pull all the windings off of there and you'll be able to get to the plunger which will let you release the clip and the metal and fiber links.
I will give that a shot
Also, how do you remove the rebound rubber? Just muscle it off? Or am I missing something obvious?
image-697.jpgPut a towel in the vice to avoid marking up the rebound bracket, then clamp it down, then pull off the rubber. It will come up over the post.
looking at that melted coil again, I dont think any of its worth it. The sleeve and coil are REALLY melted onto that plunger, I basically was hammering the sleeve through the coil. Plus that metal U bracket is bent. I was going to get a D/C pop bumper rebuild kit from PBR which includes the plunger, fiber, and metal yoke. I believe D/C is the style I want for this game, correct me if I am wrong. However it does not include the coil stop that does come with the A/C kit, but I can order that seperately: GTB-A4862
Would I be ordering the right stuff? Not placing an order yet as I still want to make it over to Steves and raid his stash like he suggested.
Surf Champ is still A/C. The only difference between those two kits is the coil stop though, and you'll want the A/C coil stop.
Since your clip is already bent, yes, nothing to be gained taking it all apart.
As for the stop pay attention to the thread diameter on the game. About the same time as Gottlieb went to the new flipper design (Surf Champ was one of the first games) they also went to a larger diameter for the stop stud. The stop Steve sells now is the previous style and you may need a new pop bumper bracket.
Quoted from MikeO:As for the stop pay attention to the thread diameter on the game. About the same time as Gottlieb went to the new flipper design (Surf Champ was one of the first games) they also went to a larger diameter for the stop stud. The stop Steve sells now is the previous style and you may need a new pop bumper bracket.
Thanks for the tip.
The simple approach is to buy new ones from PBR at $0.75 each and replace them. So as not to break anything on the red insert I just cut the tip off the bottom to remove the original. Just to be sure the price is the same as I remembered I looked at PBR's website and they now say the white stars are out of stock. BUMMER. Hopefully they will get more.
Otherwise take a qtip with cleaner and work the white stars and be patient.
Quoted from practicalsteve:also, any tips on cleaning star rollovers?
Quoted from TomT:I use the tip I read years ago take the little coffee stir straws slip them over the individual tabs on the underside of the insert then you can push the star out from underneath and give it a good cleaning.
I like that idea! I have several to clean on Wizard!
Quoted from MikeO:The simple approach is to buy new ones from PBR at $0.75 each and replace them.
I just got word back from PBR they will have the star rollover inserts back in stock next month.
Quoted from TomT:I use the tip I read years ago take the little coffee stir straws slip them over the individual tabs on the underside of the insert then you can push the star out from underneath and give it a good cleaning.
Thats a good tip! Going to try that for now and possibly order new ones down the road.
Quoted from MikeO:I just got word back from PBR they will have the star rollover inserts back in stock next month.
Good to know, dont know if I can wait a month, going to clean them for now and next time I do a PBR order will get a few thrown in.
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