Surf Champ
Gottlieb, 1976Usually just that they open and close (i.e. change state).
Do you have an alligator clip jumper wire? A long one? The other thing to do is to just jumper across sections of the logic path until it works; that isolates the problem to a switch in the skipped portion of the path.
(You run one clip to the player unit stepper coil, and the other clip to one of the switch tabs involved in the path.)
Or, alternatively, you can jumper an individual switch right at its tabs (to force it closed). (So if there was a question on whether the 1A switch or 2C switch are really closing/clean, jumper the switch closed at the back tabs for the pair of switch blades, making it closed.) [Correction: will work for switches that are NO or NC, if there's a question of whether NO are closing, and whether NC are closed and making contact.]
It's a long shot, but I'll ask, since you already checked the one on 1A; is the switch dog in the 'L' slot in the switch dog bracket at score motor position 2C? (That's the only switch dog that uses the 'L' position on a Gottlieb.)
Quoted from DirtFlipper:It's a long shot, but I'll ask, since you already checked the one on 1A; is the switch dog in the 'L' slot in the switch dog bracket at score motor position 2C? (That's the only switch dog that uses the 'L' position on a Gottlieb.)
I will check the 2C stack to see if the switch dog is in fact in the "L" position.
Quoted from DirtFlipper:Usually just that they open and close (i.e. change state).
Do you have an alligator clip jumper wire? A long one? The other thing to do is to just jumper across sections of the logic path until it works; that isolates the problem to a switch in the skipped portion of the path.
(You run one clip to the player unit stepper coil, and the other clip to one of the switch tabs involved in the path.)
I have a shorter jumper cable with alligator clips. I can make a longer one. My lack of knowledge with the schematic will be an issue here. I'll have trouble identifying which wires I'll use to isolate the bad switch/relay.
Quoted from DirtFlipper:Or, alternatively, you can jumper an individual switch right at its tabs (to force it closed). (So if there was a question on whether the 1A switch or 2C switch are really closing/clean, jumper the switch closed at the back tabs for the pair of switch blades, making it closed. This only works for normally open switches.)
I'll need assistance identifying which one of the three switches on the 1A switch stack I should jump. I'm still reading about the switches that execute, trying to see where the difference is between the "Reset" and the ball drain/ add a ball sequence.
My plan this evening is the carefully and thoroughly go back through each switch we've discussed.
Quoted from DirtFlipper:Maybe this will help.
Incidentally, the score motor 1A switch must be working, otherwise the player unit wouldn't step during reset (that path goes through 1A also).sc_pu_path.jpg 33 KB
I agree, concerning the operation of the 1A switch stack. I look forward to taking a close look at the path you've outlined.
Quoted from Cruzin1a:I'll need assistance identifying which one of the three switches on the 1A switch stack I should jump. I'm still reading about the switches that execute, trying to see where the difference is between the "Reset" and the ball drain/ add a ball sequence.
My plan this evening is the carefully and thoroughly go back through each switch we've discussed.
The 'other' path is the non-highlighted one that runs through S and the 'reset switches'.
The operator manual will have a list of all the score motor switches and what they do (it's not on the schematic).
So we had a family member pass away recently and I haven't had a lot of time to work on this. I have re-checked everything we've discussed. I did remove all of the Motor 1 switch stacks to gain access to 1A and clean it. That was not fun 
Hopefully by the end of this weekend I can take a closer look at the path you outlined. I can honestly say that I am not sure I can isolate this problem, but I will continue to try.
the motor 2C switch's look to be tough to get to. One switch is on the inside of the mounting bracket making it very hard to see or adjust and clean.
On a side note, I mentioned the BX, Last Ball relay. I still do not see it ever latch. If I manually latch it and re-start the game it will release. I am not confident it can latch.
Also, I will post a picture of the motor switches from the operator manual tonight.
I'd still suggest focusing on the other switches/relays in the path instead of the score motor switches. As noted, 1A must already be working, as it's used in both paths to the 'add player unit' coil.
Let us know when you want to take up the battle again.
(Score motor 1A: Second switch. Score motor 2C: Third switch)
If you want I can come over and try to get it up and running for ya. Im around next week. Let me know.
Had a good time at SpanishSilver's house checking out some really cool EM's, including a shooter that was so cool :0) Talked some shop and played some games. I mentioned to him something I've discovered. He mentioned a possible fix. I haven't found a good write up on it so I thought I would toss it out there.
As mentioned above, one of Surf Champ's symptoms that developed was that it wouldn't add players correctly anymore when the game start button was pressed. I looked a little closer at the coin unit. There are multiple wires soldered to wire tabs on the fixed baklite disc. Most of them are loose. So I manually advanced the coin unit to 4 players. When you wiggle some of the loose wires you can see the 2nd, 3rd and 4th players light up and go out on the back glass.
I am in the process of taking pictures and removing the coin unit to service it. I'll post some pics and welcome any advice.
Any solvent/degreaser that's handy will usually do. Rubbing alcohol, lacquer thinner, Goop are all things that have worked on dried grease/gunk.
I'm trying lol. There was a "lockin make" switch broken on the "N" 10's scoring relay that broke. The machine also developed a crazy "100's" scoring issue. I easily found a switch in the pop bumpers relay that was the issue. While looking to adjust it the contact just fell off of the switch blade(and of course fell and disappeared in the machine lol). Both were ordered from PBResource and have been replaced.
Boy do I need a lighter soldering iron and a few small clamps to hold the relays while they're being soldered.
Still haven't isolated or repaired the next ball issue. I have continued to look and check as I've been working on other things like light sockets.
Quoted from Cruzin1a:Head lamp and a cold beer, I'm going in O,o
Give it Hell. 
Alright, got a little distracted last night with some work I did on the kickout hole. DirtFlipper, I've been looking at the path you highlighted. Quick question. In the picture I've attached, I have a switch highlighted. That would be a normally open switch correct? Now that means when the Score motor activates this switch will close?
OK that makes sense. So in the attached image The blue path comes from a switch in the "S" relay which is the path when the reset button is pressed to start a game. That path successfully advances and zero's the "Player Unit" as mentioned.
The green path, as highlighted by DirtFlipper was a path I should check because when the ball drains the machine doesn't advance to the next ball and does not advance the Player Unit.
I see many "NC" switches which the schematic describes as 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th player reset switches. I also see two "NC" switches shown in the "Z1" and "Z2" Relays involved.
I then see the Motor 1A "NO" switch. Is that Motor 1A "NO" switch my concern?
Quoted from Cruzin1a:OK that makes sense. So in the attached image The blue path comes from a switch in the "S" relay which is the path when the reset button is pressed to start a game. That path successfully advances and zero's the "Player Unit" as mentioned.
The green path, as highlighted by DirtFlipper was a path I should check because when the ball drains the machine doesn't advance to the next ball and does not advance the Player Unit.
I see many "NC" switches which the schematic describes as 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th player reset switches. I also see two "NC" switches shown in the "Z1" and "Z2" Relays involved.
I then see the Motor 1A "NO" switch. Is that Motor 1A "NO" switch my concern?
No, the switch at score motor position 1A must be working if the score reels are resetting and the player unit advances during that. And Z1 and Z2 also must be working if that's the case.
You want the path that I highlighted back here:
http://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/surf-champ-next-ball/page/2#post-1294058
Within that path, the switch at 1A is the one thing we know is working.
Coincidentally, I just fixed this exact same problem on another Gottlieb 4-player over the weekend for a friend of mine, and in that case it turned out to be the switch at score motor position 2C, which is the middle switch (third switch in the operator manual listing). It wasn't closing all the way, and took a good strong light to see it well enough (board was still in the game). But the path that has BX, P, 2C, U, and whatever that first NC switch is (F?) is the one you want. The problem lies with those. Score motor switch at 2C would be a good guess though.
Quoted from Cruzin1a:I think I follow. So these switches... The 2C switch Highlighted in green in this attachment was where you found your problem? And the others highlighted in red are also suspect?
Correct. (Assuming the ball is kicking out to the plunger still, and the ball trough rollover switch has been eliminated as a suspect, which I think it had been, IIRC.)
You get Ball 1 lit for Player 1, right? But it never advances to Ball 2 after it drains.
'U' should activate after some points are scored during ball 1 play, and 'P' should activate when the ball drains, which leaves the switch at 2C that needs to close when the score motor runs.
Actually the "2C" stack was the top stack sitting on the top cam. Pretty easy to get to. First inspection and everything looked right. I identified the switch through the referenced colors on the schematic. I took the flexstone to it and the other switches in the stack also and then cleaned the dust. No change, no second ball. So I jumped it with a jumper wire. Still no change.
I did this for the "BX", "P", "U", and "F" switches circled in the above picture. Still no change, grrrrr lol.
When all else fails, break out the alligator clip jumper wire and use it to bypass the logic path. Can jumper from 'F' to '1A' and see if it forces the Player Unit to advance. If it does, then move one end of the jumper to the next spot in until it fails. When it fails, the previously bypassed switch is the problem area.
I think all these locations are on the score motor board, so one jumper wire should be able to reach them all.
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Twin Cities, MN
