New! Dark mode!

Browsing Pinside at night? Getting tired of all the white? Switch to dark mode using the button in the top right (or CTRL-B)!

(Topic ID: 235960)

Surf Champ KS Relay not working

By ChipS

1 year ago

Topic Stats

  • 31 posts
  • 9 Pinsiders participating
  • Latest reply 1 year ago by ChipS
  • Topic is favorited by 1 Pinsider


Linked Games

Topic Gallery

There have been 20 images uploaded to this topic. (View topic image gallery).

0Gottlieb-1978-Catalog-P-page-59 (resized).jpg
0Gottlieb-1978-Catalog-P-page-58 (resized).jpg
0Surf-Champ-Work-33 (resized).jpg
KS Relay_Clean02 (resized).jpg
KS Relay_Dirty (resized).jpg
KS Relay_Clean01 (resized).jpg
KS Relay Ratchet06a (resized).jpg
KS Relay Ratchet05b (resized).jpg
KS Relay Ratchet04b (resized).jpg
KS Relay Ratchet05a (resized).jpg
KS Relay Ratchet03a (resized).jpg
KS Relay Ratchet04a (resized).jpg
KS Relay Ratchet00a (resized).jpg
KS Relay Ratchet02a (resized).jpg
KS Relay Ratchet00 (resized).jpg
KS Relay Ratchet01a (resized).jpg

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider chips.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

#1 1 year ago

My Surf Champ is almost completely functioning! One last issue:

Only one of the top five rollovers is supposed to be lit at a time - the light is supposed to rotate in order after the spinner is hit. (Each flip of the spinner advances the light by one rollover - at least that's the way I think it is supposed to work.) But on mine, the top left rollover remains lit all the time - never advances.

I believe this movement is controlled by the KS relay ("Advance Unit Relay"). So I turned the game on with the playfield up and spun the spinner. The KS relay coil didn't energize. And the wiper didn't move at all. I looked at both sides of the relay and they looked the same, as if the metal leading the the wire had worn off over time. I figured this was likely the reason why it wasn't working.

But then I looked at the AS relay ("00-90 Unit Relay") in the backbox. It is just as worn and dirty. But when I fired up the game and turned the spinner, the AS relay energized and that wiper did move. So now I'm thinking it's not because the metal on the KS disc is worn.

Any suggestions on what I should check now?

Surf Champ_KS relay1 (resized).jpgSurf Champ_KS relay2 (resized).jpgSurf Champ_AS relay1 (resized).jpg
#3 1 year ago

Gotcha. So the wear on the metal parts of the disc (A-9017) is normal? Doesn't impact its operation? At first I was thinking I needed to replace that part.

Best way is to clean/adjust the switches just take the whole thing apart?

#7 1 year ago

Sorry - my mistake in labeling the photos. You are correct - they are both AS relays. The "Advance Unit Relay" is KS on the schematic. The "00-90 Unit Relay" is FS on the schematic.

The first two photos are of the KS "Advance Unit" Relay - there are two bakelite discs on either side of the coil. I only included one photo of the FS relay, which is in the backbox (that's the one that is really dirty).

The KS relay is located underneath the playfield.

Let me do a little testing tonight and I'll get back to you.

So is the best way to clean that disc with a Green Scotch Brite and alcohol? Is that general consensus?

#9 1 year ago

Did some testing. The C relay does pull in when the spinner is activated, and it does also energize the KS relay. But it seems as if the KS relay is sticking - the coil energizes and it pulls, but then it stays in that position, even when the spinner stops spinning. (And it doesn't seem that the coil is remaining energized.) The mini arm rotates the first time, but then stops.

If I turn the game off, and then manually move the plate away from the coil, and start it up again, it does the same thing. I spin the spinner, the coil energizes, it pulls the plate in, the mini arm rotates a bit, and then everything stops.

So I'm guessing something is gunked up and getting stuck? So I should take it apart and clean it? (Thanks for the link to the step-by-step, DaMoib!)

#11 1 year ago

Yes, it can be removed by unplugging the jones plug. I'll do as you suggest - thanks!

Do you have a suggestion on best way to clean those circuit cards? Is the fact that they are dirty affecting anything?

#13 1 year ago

Thanks! Yes, I did a forum search first, but made a newbie mistake - searched for "Gottlieb KS relay" and didn't find a whole lot of help. Now realize I should have searched under "AS relay" to find the right answer. Life and learn...

Thanks again everyone! I'll report back once I've checked it out.

#15 1 year ago

Thanks for the offer, Lee! And I may eventually take you up on it, if I can't get it working.

Quick question: I've never cleaned one of these before, but I do have a scotch brite and rubbing alcohol. Should I gently scrub the entire board (outlined in yellow)? And then put a tiny bit of superlube on the area in the red circle, where the arm traces?

FS Relay01a (resized).jpg
#21 1 year ago

Do I scrub the area inside the red circle with alcohol, and then put a little lube on it?

#23 1 year ago

Finally got around to this. So I dismantled the KS relay, took off the two circuit boards and observed the action when I manually activated the coil. And I think I found the problem.

The KS relay is slightly different than the AS relay in the backbox (the "00-90 Unit Relay"). The KS relay has this black rubber piece that keeps the switch closed for most of the coil activations. Each time the coil energizes, it moves the ratchet along the rubber piece until it gets to the bump, which opens the switch. I took a series of photos which shows the action.

The first three times I manually energize the coil, the ratchet rotates fine. But when I do it the fourth time, as the rise in the black rubber approaches, the metal armature doesn't push back up - as if the resistance in the rubber is too much to overcome. (It makes it look like the coil is still energized - see photos 4a and 4b). I have to manually push the metal armature back up to advance the ratchet (photo 5a). Same thing with the last advance - it gets stuck and I have to manually push the armature up to make it advance.

When it gets "over the hump," it works fine again. Every time I click it, it advances one spot. But when I get to the fourth click, and the black rubber mound approaches, it stops and I have to force the metal armature up to get the ratchet to advance.

Could the issue by the armature spring? Perhaps it's not firm enough to push the armature back up when the coil de-energizes?
KS Relay Ratchet00 (resized).jpgKS Relay Ratchet00a (resized).jpgKS Relay Ratchet01a (resized).jpgKS Relay Ratchet02a (resized).jpgKS Relay Ratchet03a (resized).jpgKS Relay Ratchet04a (resized).jpgKS Relay Ratchet04b (resized).jpgKS Relay Ratchet05a (resized).jpgKS Relay Ratchet05b (resized).jpgKS Relay Ratchet06a (resized).jpg

#27 1 year ago

Thanks - I'll give it a try and report back.

#28 1 year ago

I dismantled it, and cleaned all the dirt/grime off the ratchet. As soon as I put it back together I noticed a huge difference - it moved smoothly through each click. I didn't even have to adjust the switch.

I cleaned and lubed the circuit boards and put it back together, reconnected it to the game and it's working like a charm!

Thanks everyone for your help! Much obliged!

KS Relay_Dirty (resized).jpgKS Relay_Clean01 (resized).jpgKS Relay_Clean02 (resized).jpg
#31 1 year ago

Rolf - thank you so much for posting those pages! Very helpful information. So helpful, in fact, that I'm going to purchase the Gottlieb 1978 Parts Catalog from PBR.

Promoted items from the Pinside Marketplace
Machine - Wanted
Vista, CA
875 (OBO)
Machine - For Sale
Akron, OH
From: $ 18.00
Apparel - Men
Pinside Shop
$ 8.99
Lighting - Other
Pappy's Pinball Palace
$ 40.00
Gameroom - Decorations
Arcade Arts
From: $ 42.00
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 25.00
Playfield - Decals
$ 229.00
Cabinet - Toppers
$ 7,599.00
Pinball Machine
Gulf Coast Pinball, LLC
From: $ 99.99
$ 14.95
Playfield - Toys/Add-ons
$ 129.25
$ 7,999.00
Pinball Machine
Classic Game Rooms
$ 229.99
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 14.00
Yorktown Arcade Supply
From: $ 22.95
Cabinet - Shooter Rods
Super Skill Shot Shop
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
From: $ 10.00
Third Coast Pinball
£ 59.00
Playfield - Other
$ 79.99
Apparel - Unisex
$ 5,899.00
Pinball Machine
Gulf Coast Pinball, LLC
$ 20.00
Various Novelties
GC Pinball
$ 7.95
Various Novelties
$ 48.00
Cabinet - Other
ModFather Pinball Mods
$ 221.00
Cabinet Parts
Tilted Pinball
$ 33.00
Playfield - Decals

You're currently viewing posts by Pinsider chips.
Click here to go back to viewing the entire thread.

Hey there! Got a moment?

Great to see you're enjoying Pinside! Did you know Pinside is able to run thanks to donations from our visitors? Please donate to Pinside, support the site and get anext to your username to show for it! Donate to Pinside