(Topic ID: 310279)

Surf Champ double bonus countdown issue

By johnny1234

2 years ago


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2X bonus path 1 (resized).jpg
#1 2 years ago

I've got a restored, clean, Surf Champ that does not countdown the double bonus correctly. Single and triple bonus are fine. However, 90+% of the time, the double bonus short-changes me. What should be a 20k bonus might give 14-18k. I've cleaned the motor switches, bonus unit, and 1000-pt relay. It does this for all players.

On the working single and triple bonus step-down, the bonus subtract coil pulses once per bonus number, however it tries to pulse twice per number on the double bonus which in turn makes the bonus unit seem to skip some numbers. Not sure what actually pulses the 1000 pts during the bonus countdown. I have the schematics, but not an expert. Thanks for any help.

#2 2 years ago

I'm no pro either, but check under the playfield and make sure that you are on 5-ball play.
The scoring and other aspects of the game will be different on 3-ball function, and maybe that is what you're noticing?

#3 2 years ago

If you find yourself still scratching your head over any problems with your EM, here is a cool thread /workshop to consider:

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/an-em-pinball-online-repair-clinic/page/3#post-6775202

#4 2 years ago

Thank you, but it is set on 5-ball.

#5 2 years ago

1X bonus should add 5000 per motor turn (120 degrees) and decrement the bonus 5 times
2X bonus should add 4000 per motor turn and decrement the bonus twice
3X bonus should add 3000 per motor turn and decrement the bonus once

until zero bonus

Is this what it is doing, with the exception of the 2X bonus?

#6 2 years ago

Here is the path for 2X bonus scoring (4,000 points per motor cycle). The 8B switch is unique to the 2X bonus, Motor 3C is also used for the 3X bonus. Check out that 8B switch first.

2X bonus path 1 (resized).jpg2X bonus path 1 (resized).jpg
#7 2 years ago

The first part is verified. Yes-5k per 120 degrees on single bonus, 4K on double and 3k on triple. Sometimes I’m getting all 4K per cycle on the double.

9b alone is engaged when I’ve got double qualified

10b and 11b activate at start of ball 5 which gives you double bonus off the bat

If you earn the triple bonus on ball 5, 9b and 8b also activate.

Not sure if this is what’s supposed to happen.
For some reason, just not getting the 4 pulses per cycle every time on the double.

#8 2 years ago

So 8b is not engaging on the double. Only on triple. 8b does not have its own coil as it piggybacks off of 10b when it’s activated.
I’ve searched high and low and cannot find anyone else who had this issue. I’ve had a few Surfers and Surf Champs over the years and this is a first!

#9 2 years ago

8b should not be engaging on the double bonus, but the switch in question is the 8b NC switch (with SL-BLK and GR-WH-RED wires). It should be closed when 2X bonus is on and 4 of the 5 Motor 1A pulses should flow through it.

It opens during 3X bonus, forcing one more of the 1A pulses to be filtered out by the Motor 3B switch.

#10 2 years ago

Further questions (just trying to determine if there could be other sources for the error):

Are you ever off by 1000, or 3000, ... (non-multiples of 2000) or is it always 2000, 4000, ... (multiples of 2000)?

When 2X bonus is counting down, do the bonus lights drop 2 per motor rev consistently?

#11 2 years ago

During double bonus, it's off by even and odd amounts, because maybe 1 out of 4 times if I have just 1 bonus light lit, instead of 2k, I get only 1k. Thank you very much for spending the time to try and figure this out. Much appreciated!

1 month later
#12 2 years ago

Finally solved!!! I actually had a secondary problem of the ball count not advancing about once a game. Both issues ended up being related. The problem causing both was with the score motor 2C switch stack actuator. It was in the ‘S’ position like all of the other 4 or 5 actuators on the score motor stacks, but it turns out that 2C is the only one that’s supposed to be in the ‘L’ position. Saw it on a Pinside thread elsewhere today where someone had that issue on another Gottlieb pin of same era. I think it was 'DaMoib' who gave that correct fix too so thank you! The detailed score motor card in the Surf Champ manual specifically calls out for all the other actuator positions to be in the ‘S’ spot, yet says nothing about the 2C stack-almost assuming the ‘L’ to be the default. Very tricky one to figure out.

1 year later
#13 10 months ago

DaMoib johnny1234
Similar issue but mine messes up odds for double and triple
Ball count works fine
Cleaned and aligned 2C stack

What should I check now?

#14 10 months ago

Solved don’t know which one but double bonus and triple bonus works now

I cleaned and aligned motor switches

image (resized).jpgimage (resized).jpg
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